Bulls on the Skagit System: Skagit, Sauk, Suiattle, Cascade

[AJFishdude]

Hey everyone, I have a few questions about fishing the Skagit system for Bulls/Dollies (not sure which they actually are in there...). What I am specifically looking for would be tips on techniques, best time of your to fish them and suggestions on places to go if you are willing to share (or you could PM me if you would rather not say publicly).

Before I get started, I will also add that I understand that these are special fish. They are native to Washington, largely or completely untampered with by man, and should be treated with respect; and this is exactly why I am attracted to them. Sure it's a lot of fun to reel in (and eat) a big hatchery Chinook, but native fish have a different and very special attraction for me.

Alright, so from what I gather, the Skagit system has a very healthy population of Bulls, I believe largely due to the fact that so much of the headwater area of the system is protected. I also gather that once you find them, they are super aggressive and will hit just about anything. In particular it seems that fish imitating lures, whether they be streamers or spoons or something else, work great, as do beads or corkies that imitate eggs. Bottom line though is that they aren't picky. Now, it is ironic because I have fished for them a number of times in the Wallace, but always come up with a zero.

So if anyone could offer some advice on fishing them in the Skagit system, that would be great. In general, I mean the upper Skagit as well, near Concrete or above, as well as the Cascade. Also, I hear good things about the Sauk and Suiattle (and they are actually closer to me than the upper reaches of the Skagit, or Cascade too), and I would love to know about those rivers.

I have heard that early summer is a good time before they head to their spawning grounds, but that late fall/early winter is good too when they head back down after spawning. However, I hear that the Sauk in particular can be almost unfishable in early summer due to the amount of silt in it from the Suiattle, maybe the stretch upriver of Darrington is good though? I've heard the Whitechuck is good as well.

Simply, this is a dump of my brain on this subject, and I would love input anyone has. Also, feel free to offer advice on the Sky or Wallace too, as they are even closer to me, but don't seem to have quite the same concentration (from my observation).

[coretron22]

My understanding is that they are Dollies in the rivers, Bull Trout in the lakes. I've hooked 2 Dollies fishing for Steelhead on the Wallace (only been 2 times)...They'll hit the same stuff. Dollies pull down and don't usually jump, so you can usually tell when you have one on the line, as Steelhead come up and jump or roll. They also tend to be lower in the water column than trout. I've also got them as incidental catch on a couple lakes...while targeting big Rainbow Trout. They are typically illegal to target in Lakes that they inhabit, so I have never specifically targeted them or retained one. They are indeed special creatures. I once caught one over 35 inches. Thought it was a muskie at first...best fight of my life.

[zen leecher]

Just remember that after spawning the fish are feeding to get the energy necessary to make it down to the salt again. I've caught them while steelheading and it's not a long fight. One day 11 were caught in the course of steelheading and all were released.

The outside of the current seam was steelhead and the inside were recovering bull trout.

[AJFishdude]

Just remember that after spawning the fish are feeding to get the energy necessary to make it down to the salt again. I've caught them while steelheading and it's not a long fight. One day 11 were caught in the course of steelheading and all were released.

The outside of the current seam was steelhead and the inside were recovering bull trout.

Good info, thanks zen. I have heard that they feed aggressively after spawning, but also wondered if a fight at that point would be particularly hard on the fish.

[zen leecher]

use your best judgement and proceed as you desire.

[natetreat]

Swing a fly. Cast a spoon. Gold seems to work the best, especially in the summer when the river opens back up, tthe suckers are spawning. Cut a dolly open and their belly is stuffed with 'em. When they let the smolt out in the cascade, the river is inundated with the predatory bastards. Cast into a cloud of smolt with a spinner, or a dick night, and you can't keep 'em off. It's pretty awesome.

I've had really good luck on plugs as well. Back troll under some of the logs from the bank to get that really cool plug hit while the rod is in your hands. They're fish eaters and egg eaters, but because they're actually munching food, flashy spinner, spoons, and flies will call them in from a distance. They are super plentiful up there, and they're not hatchery bound, so you aren't limited to a terminal fishery. Don't feel guilty about taking a few home either, they're delicious and plentiful. My favorite way to get 'em is on the skagit swing. They don't fight as tough as a steelhead, but they look cooler, especially when you catch a spawner.

[fish vacuum]

I'd move around until you find them. Try a section of river, then move up a few miles if you don't find any. There's no point in pounding one spot for long unless you're hooking up. If the fish are there, they'll play. Cover the water and move on. They'll take any flies or lures. They also love pink worms. Just pretend you're steelheading.
And the fish in our rivers are bull trout. Out of habit, I still refer to them as dollies, but true dollies are only found above barriers in our region.

[AJFishdude]

Good info there nate and vacuum! That's what I keep hearing, they will hit anything, just have to find them.

[fish vacuum]

I'll emphasize again, do not stand in one spot and fish it all day. If the fish are there, they will hit. There is no use changing gear and fishing a pool over and over again. Cover the water and move on.

[natetreat]

They are both Dollies and bull trout. The only way tot ell them apart is to count their fin rays - http://www.fishingwithrod.com/articles/ ... trout.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Since they coexist in the same rivers and they are also able to interbreed with fertile hybrids, that makes it even harder to distinguish the difference between the two, which is incredibly subtle. But, if it's really bothering you, count the anal fin rays, and if there are more than 15 it's a bully. I think I may start doing that, just to see what's what.

[AJFishdude]

It doesn't bother me that much whether it is a Bull or a Dolly, but I may do like you said Nate, just to see what's up. Another question for you; I know that these rivers can be filled with a lot of silt at times. How much do you find the amount of silt impacts the fishing, and, are there certain times of the year that these rivers fish better than at other times?

[natetreat]

I've caught them reliably year round, in all conditions. When the rivers are silty or colered I've hadd luck with black spoons and flies. In the summer, I'm usually headed out with the spey rod to fish the stilly, and black and purple, or black with gold flash is really the only pattern I use, and if you're below the creek, the Stilly is dumping mud even when it's low. The main thing about dolly/bulls is curiosity. No one knows a lot about 'em, even biologists have a tough time of it. I don't think there is a definitive way to tell besides genetic analysis or dna or some such, since it's possible for them to hybridize, and it's most likely a fairly common occurrence, kinda like the golden trout in the high lakes, they've all interbred with cutts and rainbows, making neat colored fishies.

[spoonman]

. But, if it's really bothering you, count the anal fin rays, and if there are more than 15 it's a bully. I think I may start doing that, just to see what's what.[/quote]

Anything to be that close to the wrong of a dolly eh nate? Youre just sick

[fish vacuum]

They are both Dollies and bull trout. The only way tot ell them apart is to count their fin rays - http://www.fishingwithrod.com/articles/ ... trout.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Since they coexist in the same rivers and they are also able to interbreed with fertile hybrids, that makes it even harder to distinguish the difference between the two, which is incredibly subtle. But, if it's really bothering you, count the anal fin rays, and if there are more than 15 it's a bully. I think I may start doing that, just to see what's what.

Genetic testing says all the char in skagit and sauk mainstems are bull trout. Dollies are only found high up in the headwaters above barriers. Maybe Smalma will see this thread and provide more details.

[Bobber_Dogging_Gal]

Speaking of char, nothing wrong with a fresh brook trout from a lake either

[geljockey]

The native range of the Dolly Varden does extend as far south as Washington but they are restricted to small, high-elevation tributaries in the Cascades and Olympics, usually above barriers to anadromous migration where they never achieve any significant size. The large, semi-anadromous char of Puget Sound and the coastal rivers are Bull Trout.

In addition, a 2000 WDFW management plan stated that Dolly Varden and Bull Trout occur sympatrically in two western Washington watersheds (Quinault River system and Nooksack River system).

[natetreat]

The simple fact is that they don't know enough about 'em to say what they are. They can interbreed, and they probably have. Whatever they are, fishing for them is fun. I'm not going to get into an argument over it, because I don't care.

[Bodofish]

The simple fact is that they don't know enough about 'em to say what they are. They can interbreed, and they probably have. Whatever they are, fishing for them is fun. I'm not going to get into an argument over it, because I don't care.

I'm with you Nate. I always chum up the bios when ever I see them and all I've ever heard from them is Dolly, Dolly, Dolly. I can't say I've ever caught one I could identify for sure as a Bull. I used to see quite a few in the nets when I was commercial. I always thought Bulls were stay at homes.

[natetreat]

Yep, there's so much conflicting information about 'em. I find it interesting because it's illustrative of just how little we know about the natural world. Sure, we have our pet species, salmon whales, wolves etc. but the scientists can't even agree on whether they're dollies or bulls... they have no idea where steelhead go, or whether the sturgeon in the sound are Columbia fish.

[geljockey]

When I first got interested in Bull Trout/Dolly Varden, the old rule of thumb was that Dolly Varden were the anadromous coastal form and the Bull Trout the inland form. Plus the the two species are so similar looking that they cannot be easily identified in the field. A lot of measurements must be taken. In the last 20 years widespread genetic testing has been done and it is pretty much known who lives where.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/00930/wdfw00930.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I do remember the first Bull Trout I caught in Washington and I will never forget it. It was 24", a beautiful olive color with large off white-colored spotting. Just beautiful.