Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

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cosme9242
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Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by cosme9242 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:05 am

Was at one of the local lakes in King County and on my way out to the parking lot the warden swooped in and informed me that he watched me catch and release over 15 trout in 1hr and asked what I was using.

I told him I was using 2lb test with power eggs and he told me under state law those fish count on your 5 fish limit which is new to me because they consider the plastic Power Eggs bait that floats.

I understand why this law is in place because most jack wagons don't know how to release a trout without killing it. I insured him that none of the fish ever left the water and were all released and lived. I don't like this law because I would of been done in the 1st 15 min at this lake. Got off with a warning but the wardens are out in force with binoculars watching and asking rhetorical questions.

Anyone else here know of this law? I'm all about following the law and regs to insure a heathy fishing population but I think this law is BS. From what I remember the regs used the word "retained"

hlindsay
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by hlindsay » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:33 am

The law has been around for a long time. You need to know that if you use any bait, (and that includes scents. see page 10 of regs) you must count released trout as part of you limit. See page 17 of regs. You are lucky he did not hand you a ticket.

zen leecher aka Bill W
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by zen leecher aka Bill W » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:16 am

Been that way for a while. You are lucky you didn't get a ticket. Fish appropriately the next time out.

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The Quadfather
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by The Quadfather » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:03 pm

So much great and successful fishing can be done without using bait. I can't remember the last time I concerned myself with bait.

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Amx
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by Amx » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:06 pm

That last time I used bait was in the summer of 1972. While catfishing in the state of Illiniosie. [biggrin] I totally believe in artificial lures anymore.
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gsiegel
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by gsiegel » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:00 pm

I would like to hear your technique for releasing fish using bait that you say is so successful.

The law makes sense to me, as many bait-caught fish swallow the hook.

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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by jonb » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:17 pm

Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the laws. You calling other people a jackwagon is a bit hypocritical, typically you are the type of person i would consider a jack wagon. If you plan to release fish you shouldnt use bait. If you do they count towards your limit. Next you should use barbless hooks and never during any point remove the fish from the water (for certain species this part is a law aswell) if your an all-star fish handler, you'll use a knotless net, and a pair of hemostats to remove your bait free barbless hook from the fish and return in less than 10 seconds without removing it from the water.
There is nothing wrong with using bait to catch dinner, everything is wrong using bait for catch and release. I used to catch and released using bait, ive since learned the errors of my ways. At that point i was a jackwagon. Learn from this don't scoff at it.
Last edited by jonb on Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
hi my name is john, and I'm a fishing addict.

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Amx
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by Amx » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:39 pm

from the on-line regs;

page 12;

Bait
Anything that attracts fish or shellfish by
scent and/or flavor. This includes any device
made of feathers, hair, fiber, wood, metal, glass,
cork, leather, rubber, or plastic, which uses scent
and/or flavoring to attract fish or wildlife


Bouyant Lure
A lure that floats on the surface of
fresh water when no additional weight is applied
to the line or lure, and when not being retrieved
by a line.


page 15;

· Do not net your fish – but if you must, use a soft, knotless net or rubber
mesh net. Knotless nets are now required in fly-fishing only areas and
freshwater areas with selective gear rules.


page 18;

Where use of bait is prohibited, or where
lures or flies are used voluntarily, Game Fish
may be caught and released until the daily
limit is retained. If any fish has swallowed the
hook or is hooked in the gill, eye, or tongue, it
should be kept if legal to do so.


page 19;

In lakes, ponds, and reservoirs:
No min. size. Daily limit 5. When fishing with bait, all TROUT (except
STEELHEAD) equal to or greater than the minimum size are counted as part of the daily limit whether
kept or released.


There is probably more that pertains, but I'm not going to look it all up, I'm missing the movie looking up all this. And it also depends on what lake, as in whether or not it is a "selective gear rules" lake and so on.
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jd39
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by jd39 » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:48 am

There are some dumb rules but I don't think this is one of them. To me fishing bait is fishing to catch and kill for the most part, can only think of a few exceptions.
How were you plunking bait off of the bottom and not gut hooking at least a few of those fish? Even if you just cut the leader do you think that's a good practice for C&R fishing? Not trying to pile on you just offering a few thoughts. Would like to understand how out of all those fish none swallowed the bait. I'm not that good, if it were me a few of those fish would be dead, C&R or not.

cosme9242
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by cosme9242 » Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:33 am

jonb wrote:Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the laws. You calling him a jackwagon is a bit hypocritical, typically you are the type of person i would consider a jack wagon. If you plan to release fish you shouldnt use bait. If you do they count towards your limit. Next you should use barbless hooks and never during any point remove the fish from the water (for certain species this part is a law aswell) if your an all-star fish handler, you'll use a knotless net, and a pair of hemostats to remove your bait free barbless hook from the fish and return in less than 10 seconds without removing it from the water.
There is nothing wrong with using bait to catch dinner, everything is wrong using bait for catch and release. I used to catch and released using bait, ive since learned the errors of my ways. At that point i was a jackwagon. Learn from this don't scoff at it.
Never called the warden a jackwagon, read it again. Not making excuses I was in the wrong I just don't agree with the law but I'll follow it. To the other guy wanting to know how I release fish a trout without harming it. The fish never leaves the water and is never touched. I use the hook remover that has a trigger that slides down the line. If the fish swallows the hook and I just cut the line. Its that simple.

Never claimed I was some master fish releaser that's never killed a fish so I don't know where the **** your hostile *** attitude is coming from.

Bottom line is I was in the wrong and I didn't know a plastic egg was considered a bait (like a worm or dough type bait)
I'm sure there are others reading this that didn't know that either but because of the response of some on this board they don't want to get flamed.

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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by hewesfisher » Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:48 am

This topic has been discussed on this forum many times in the past, and a lot of people overlook pg 17 in the pamphlet where the rule is stated. It is also frequently addressed in posted reports, especially this time of year.

From the 2015 Freshwater fishing pamphlet:

TROUT: The combined daily limit for an angler that fishes in both rivers and lakes on the same day is 5 TROUT. In the combined daily limit, only 2 TROUT may be from rivers, except as provided for EASTERN BROOK TROUT.

BROWN TROUT, CUTTHROAT TROUT, RAINBOW TROUT, LAKE TROUT, GOLDEN TROUT, KOKANEE, TIGER TROUT, GRAYLING

In rivers, streams, and beaver ponds: Min. size 8". Daily limit 2. When fishing with bait, all TROUT (except STEELHEAD) equal to or greater than the minimum size are counted as part of the daily limit whether kept or released.

In lakes, ponds, and reservoirs: No min. size. Daily limit 5. When fishing with bait, all TROUT (except STEELHEAD) equal to or greater than the minimum size are counted as part of the daily limit whether kept or released.

AMX provided the page reference for bait definition. In addition to statewide rules, ALWAYS check the Special Rules section for the body of water you're fishing. I make it a habit to check the Special Rules first, then refer to Statewide Rules.

Plastic or not, as defined in the rules, Power Eggs are bait when used for trout. This is direct from Berkley's website:
Berkley PowerBait makes novice anglers good and good anglers great! Berkley scientists have spent over 25 years perfecting an irresistible scent and flavor - the exclusive PowerBait formula.
Phil

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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by G-Man » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:23 pm

Just an FYI - It is getting more and more difficult to find soft/plastic lures that don't contain some kind of scent or attractant. I like to use artificial eggs and worms in the selective gear rivers I fish and only a few manufacturers offer scent free products. You have to really read the label/package to make sure you're in compliance.

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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by ridgeratt » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:42 pm

While I understand the bait rules and I am ok with it. The question that clunked into my skull today was. While fishing with bait any fish is considered part of the daily Limit. OK so I am out trolling for Kokanees or any fish for that matter and I have several long line release's that I fight for a short time and they come un pinned, Do they count? If so I could very well meet the daily requirement and never get a fish to the boat.

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The Quadfather
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by The Quadfather » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:14 pm

ridgeratt wrote:While I understand the bait rules and I am ok with it. The question that clunked into my skull today was. While fishing with bait any fish is considered part of the daily Limit. OK so I am out trolling for Kokanees or any fish for that matter and I have several long line release's that I fight for a short time and they come un pinned, Do they count? If so I could very well meet the daily requirement and never get a fish to the boat.
Look closely at the verbage;


Game Fish
may be caught and released until the daily
limit is retained. If any fish has swallowed the
hook or is hooked in the gill, eye, or tongue, it
should be kept if legal to do so.

Cut/pasted from regs.

You haven't "caught" fish that have come unbuttoned.

Webster definition of "Caught"
Past tense of "Catch"

Webster Definition of catch
: to use your hands to stop and hold (an object that is moving through the air)
: to use your hands to grasp and hold onto (someone or something)
: to capture and not allow (a person, animal, or fish) to escape
Last edited by The Quadfather on Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Amx
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by Amx » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:20 pm

If that were the case, I woulda 'caught' 15 plus fish the other day. lol [laugh]
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Larry3215
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by Larry3215 » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:11 pm

I think the key word is "retained". Its the ones you retain that count towards your limit - not the ones you "catch".

UNLESS - you 'catch' one with 'bait', even if you release it and dont "retain" it, it still counts towards your limit.

So there are two different situations.

1) Fishing with a lure - you can "catch" all you want until you "retain" your limit.

2) Fishing with bait - every "catch" counts towards your limit even if you dont retain them.

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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by hewesfisher » Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:54 am

Larry3215 wrote:I think the key word is "retained". Its the ones you retain that count towards your limit - not the ones you "catch".

UNLESS - you 'catch' one with 'bait', even if you release it and dont "retain" it, it still counts towards your limit.

I'd be very careful using "retained" as the key word. WDFW regulations say kept or released. To me, kept is retained, released is not retained. My personal line of demarcation is if I physically remove the hook (in the net, in the water, hanging off my line), THAT trout was caught whether it goes on ice in my cooler (retained) or back in the water (not retained). I can catch and release 5 trout when using bait, not retain a single one, and still must STOP fishing for trout as I've met the daily limit definition for trout. If I want to keep fishing for trout, I'd have to switch to non-scented lures after my 4th trout was released. Better still, start with non-scented presentations, catch and release to my heart's content, then switch to bait to catch what I want for retention. [thumbup]

So there are two different situations.

1) Fishing with a lure - you can "catch" all you want until you "retain" your limit.

Correct UNLESS restricted in the special rules section of the pamphlet..

2) Fishing with bait - every "catch" counts towards your limit even if you dont retain them.

Correct. When fishing with bait, every trout caught counts toward the limit whether kept or released. Important to read the special rules for the body of water being fished. Not all lakes count kokanee as part of the trout limit. Roosevelt is a prime example and kokanee are NOT included in trout daily limit.

Long line released fish don't count as being caught, they were never caught. Remember, the bait rule being discussed only applies to TROUT, not all fish. If you never see the fish, how do you know what it was?
[wink]
Phil

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Larry3215
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by Larry3215 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:26 am

The one thing for sure - you have to read the regs very carefully - and even then its not always clear!

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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by cwbraue » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:06 am

You know, planted fish are planted for catching. I don't like harming fish either, but I think you guys are being way to hard on the guy, bordering on obnoxious.

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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by gear addict » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:24 am

Prob the wrong topic to put up a first post on. Hello everyone!
I think its a good reg. 4 ot of 5 fish I caught the on my last 2 trips were hooked deep. If I was going out and didnt know the rules, and got caught breaking them I would not be talking about it on the net. Expect to get abused. This rule has been around a while.

If I were you I would give the regs a good look. If this got by you there is most likely plenty more you are missing. Sign up to get wdfw emails too. Its a very necessary tool to anyone that fishes these days. Its impossible to stay legal with just the book. You are very lucky this warden let you slide on this one. There a many rules I think are silly were a guy would deserve a break. This is not one of them. They are put, and take fish tho, and I think the limit should be 10, or 15. As far as all your fish living using bait. Who knows. Little fish hooked deep tho. I think there is a high mortality rate. To lip hook them you have to set the hook early, and they still might swollow it. I would try a fly , and a water bobber, or a lure next time. I doubt you will get another break. Congrats on the good trip! I am going to do way more lake fishing these days. The kid has my sled, and i will have to big deal him to get it back so its shore fishin for the old man. I should be more fired up about springer fishing, but fishing a mi from the house is great. My only complaint is its over to quick, and its early in the season, and its a bit crowded still.

Good luck all!!!

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