Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

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jonb
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by jonb » Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:40 pm

Cwbraue while it might be obnoxious to correct a guy on the internet. Its even more obnoxious when someone like him goes from c/r trout with bait to flossing salmon to c/r coho that swallowed roe and other ignorant, self centered, destructive behavior... I found a chrome coho flopping on the shoreline of the snohomish last year upon closer inspection it swallowed roe so deep the person who caught it cut the line .. Clearly it was going to die so i netted it and kept it.. After that i watched what they were doing, dragging fish on the bank and kicking them back in, c/r with bait. Killing fish left and right. Knowing this, if i have the chance to educate and clarify that C/R WITH BAIT IS NEVER GOOD FISH HANDLING EVEN IF LEGAL TO DO SO, then i most certainly will. it is nessesary to say, must be said. if im obnoxious then im obnoxious, ohh well ill just have to live with that. These days i dont even use bait when i plan to keep fish, incase i have delecate bycatch.
hi my name is john, and I'm a fishing addict.

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ridgeratt
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by ridgeratt » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:41 pm

Well not trying to grill anyone. But I see numerous reports that have folks crowing about what they have caught and how many they released using bait. So it must be a lot of folks are not aware or just don't care about the rules.

That's all I have.

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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by jonb » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:03 pm

ridgeratt wrote:Well not trying to grill anyone. But I see numerous reports that have folks crowing about what they have caught and how many they released using bait. So it must be a lot of folks are not aware or just don't care about the rules.

That's all I have.
I fish on the order of 100-200 days per year, i post a report about 10% of the time. In my experience the people that completely know and follow the rules are the minority. It seems the new wave of american sportsfishers are more concerned with stroking their egos with how many fish they caught than conservation or challenging themselves with fishing correctly. And i dont give a hoot if i hurt someones ego here. When i go to the river and see people drifting yarn with more than say 5ft of leader, they are trying to catch fish that arent willingly taking the hook. That is illegal and it seems like 50% do that. Littering is brutally rampant. C/r with bait can be seen on any given day you visit a low land lake or river during salmon season. And thats not even talking about the really aggregious poaching/snagging that goes on!!!! I once happened upon a pile of gutted pink salmon hens, dozens left to rot for the roe, so some jack wagon can go gut hook a bunch of coho and leave them to die too... I left washington and it was the best move i ever, ever made. Its unreal how different it is here. People actually do care, will call out a violation openly and are willing to have open, frank honest conversations about this without fear of hurting someones ego.
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by riverhunter » Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:31 am

Im with jonb on this. If you plan to catch an realease just dont use bait or scents. The rule is set so others have a chance at catching those fish also. We all know stocker trout are put in lakes to be caught but if someone goes out and catches and realeses 30+ fish a day with scent or bait then he is ruining it for everyone. I usually just catch five and call it good. If i catch 5 in 15 minutes great come back tomorrow to try again and beat that record but i try avoid catch and realease trout unless i am trolling flies.

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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by cumminsbassguy » Sun May 01, 2016 10:53 pm

So if I'm bass fishing with a coffee scented plastic lizard and catch and release 6 trout im breaking the law ? Because it is scented

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Amx
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by Amx » Mon May 02, 2016 12:12 am

No, because you aren't trout fishing. That's called an incidental catch. If the trout want to commit suicide, that's their problem.
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Mike Carey
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by Mike Carey » Mon May 02, 2016 6:01 am

ridgeratt wrote:Well not trying to grill anyone. But I see numerous reports that have folks crowing about what they have caught and how many they released using bait. So it must be a lot of folks are not aware or just don't care about the rules.

That's all I have.
Please give me the report locations and dates so I can remove them. We screen every report and admittedly sometimes one gets through, but our policy is to take any reports down that mention illegal fishing methods.
I think in reality you'll find it's the exception and not the norm around here. If you're seeing all these numerous reports then let us know.
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by Shad_Eating_Grin » Mon May 02, 2016 10:00 am

Mike Carey wrote:...Please give me the report locations and dates so I can remove them. We screen every report and admittedly sometimes one gets through, but our policy is to take any reports down that mention illegal fishing methods.
I think in reality you'll find it's the exception and not the norm around here. If you're seeing all these numerous reports then let us know.
Thanks
Thanks Mike.

BTW while they may or may not necessarily be posted on this site, I often see lots of report every year where someone hooks and lands dozens of kokanee until they are able to select the largest to keep.

It's kinda a nuance that some people don't know: kokanee are legally considered "trout" (even though they are landlocked sockeye salmon), and so the same rules as trout apply when fishing for kokes with bait, scent, flavor etc.

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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by BARCHASER10 » Mon May 02, 2016 10:29 am

The fishing regs have gotten more and more complex. Most folks find it too much to read through all the verbiage. I wish the WDFW would have a page, at the front, where they clearly state in bold print which rules are violated often and are the least well known. They must know. Burying something like this on page 17 just doesn't work. A lot of folks these days have a bumper sticker mentality. They want the important things short, sweet and right in front of their noses. Shoot, I'm kind of a bumper sticker guy myself, I didn't know about this one either.

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Larry3215
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by Larry3215 » Mon May 02, 2016 8:23 pm

ridgeratt wrote:Well not trying to grill anyone. But I see numerous reports that have folks crowing about what they have caught and how many they released using bait. So it must be a lot of folks are not aware or just don't care about the rules.

That's all I have.
While many may not like it, it is legal to release fish caught with bait. Any trout caught with bait counts towards your limit, but you can release them if you want - unless they have swallowed the hook or are hooked in the eye or gills. If thats the case, you are required to keep them IF they are legal to keep.

So if the limit is 5, you can catch a max of 5 fish using bait. You can also release all 5 if you want, but you have to stop after catching the first 5 no matter how many you keep.

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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by Ian Horning » Thu May 05, 2016 2:32 pm

Oh boy, this topic has garnered some heat!

There's clearly a reason the rule is in place. Even if you did not gut hook any fish (which I doubt, it's powerbait dude) and released all fish safely, even if they were all hooked in the corner of the mouth with barbless hooks and released them with utmost care... for every one ethical angler, there will be a hundred anglers that gut hook fish by leaving a slack line, and kill the fish because they are little stockers and they want triploids and it'll lead to a whole slew of unethical behavior. They'll take advantage of the rule and not give a rat's ass because they don't care for the fish and treat them ethically.

Please don't twist my words and make me sound like an "People for the ethical treatment of fish" nutcase. That's not what I'm saying. I am saying it's kinda twisted to kill fish and not eat them or leave leaders hanging out of their mouths. In most cases, the little stocker fish will have mangled throats and die, or not be able to feed properly and die.

Either way, not how you should treat a fish.

Even a fish that SHOULD have been bound for the Ocean, and then our rivers again in three years... but due to some *ahem circumstances, isn't.

Killing invasive & harmful species is different, such as Pikeminnows. And no, Bull Trout are not "harmful species."

The use of bait is really only ever meant for take home fisheries. The only time thus far that I find myself readily using bait is trolling for Walleye, Bow's and Kokes. And Sturgeon, and Catfish. And I'm fine with bait use for really all species (save river-run trout, especially bulls... c'mon, man). If you want to ethically catch and release, huck some hardware at 'em. Or flies, better yet. You gotta follow the rules.

The rule is not discriminating against the ethical anglers. It's in place so we can catch/limit the unethical ones.
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by The Quadfather » Thu May 05, 2016 3:18 pm

Ian Horning wrote:
The rule is not discriminating against the ethical anglers. It's in place so we can catch/limit the unethical ones.
Not to resurrect this thread, but Ian stated it in a nutshell.👌

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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by riverhunter » Thu May 05, 2016 10:41 pm

Btw pikeminnows are not an invasive species. A nuisance maybe but definitely not invasive!

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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by Hunter757 » Fri May 06, 2016 5:33 am

Amx wrote:No, because you aren't trout fishing. That's called an incidental catch. If the trout want to commit suicide, that's their problem.

So if I fish for Kokanee and catch a trout incidental catch that does not count towards my limit on a lake that has 5 trout and 10 kokanee separate from the trout limit I can keep releasing trout because I am fishing for kokanee? I don't want to start the next great debate, the rule is there and people are going to twist it into what works for them is what I am reading. Bottom line is just like speeding if you brake the law be prepared to pay the fine if caught.
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by Amx » Fri May 06, 2016 6:26 am

Hunter757 wrote:
Amx wrote:No, because you aren't trout fishing. That's called an incidental catch. If the trout want to commit suicide, that's their problem.

So if I fish for Kokanee and catch a trout incidental catch that does not count towards my limit on a lake that has 5 trout and 10 kokanee separate from the trout limit I can keep releasing trout because I am fishing for kokanee? I don't want to start the next great debate, the rule is there and people are going to twist it into what works for them is what I am reading. Bottom line is just like speeding if you brake the law be prepared to pay the fine if caught.
No, he and I were talking about bass fishing and catching a trout. Entirely different than fishing for kok and catching trout. The trout and the kok people will have to worry about all that trout vs kok stuff.
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by jonb » Fri May 06, 2016 7:15 am

Actually its irrelevant what your fishing for, if the trout limit is 5 and your fishing for bass and you incidentantally catch 5 trout on bait its time to pack up and go home because you reached your limit of trout, regardless of whether your targeting them or not. Same applies for kokanee.
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by Onmygame » Fri May 06, 2016 8:23 am

jonb wrote:Actually its irrelevant what your fishing for, if the trout limit is 5 and your fishing for bass and you incidentantally catch 5 trout on bait its time to pack up and go home because you reached your limit of trout, regardless of whether your targeting them or not. Same applies for kokanee.
Is this an opinion, or an interpretation of the rules?

Please clarify - and if other than opinion, it would be great if you could provide a link to or page number of the rule in question.

Thanks

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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by hewesfisher » Fri May 06, 2016 8:30 am

Hunter757 wrote:So if I fish for Kokanee and catch a trout incidental catch that does not count towards my limit on a lake that has 5 trout and 10 kokanee separate from the trout limit I can keep releasing trout because I am fishing for kokanee?
How I look at your scenario above is this, if fishing for kokanee with bait on a lake where kokanee are not included in the trout daily limit, when you have caught 15 trout, whether kept or released, you are done. Kokanee are defined in the regs as trout, only thing that changes is the daily limit for each species. I personally view your example above as being a combined 15 trout per day limit.

In comparison, at American Lake, kokanee are included in the trout daily limit when fishing for trout with bait and every trout caught counts whether kept or released. At American, if you target kokanee, catch and release a rainbow, it counts toward the 5 trout daily limit.

Now, my personal ethics are, when I'm targeting rainbow with bait, I stop after 5 even though I can legally continue fishing for kokanee. Same thing when fishing for kokanee with bait. At Roosevelt the daily limit is 6 kokanee, no more than 2 with intact adipose fins. If I'm targeting kokanee, I stop after 2 with intact adipose fins regardless of length, even though I can legally release a "short" koke and try for a larger one. Again, my personal ethics. [cool]
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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by jd39 » Fri May 06, 2016 11:14 am

jonb wrote:Actually its irrelevant what your fishing for, if the trout limit is 5 and your fishing for bass and you incidentantally catch 5 trout on bait its time to pack up and go home because you reached your limit of trout, regardless of whether your targeting them or not. Same applies for kokanee.
This is not accurate in my opinion. The legal daily possession limit that applies here is 2 daily limits of game fish in any form. Check page 17 if you dont believe me. Meaning if you retain or c&r using bait a limit of trout or kokanee you can still legally fish for spiney rays, catfish and/or bass, etc. I often do this cuz perch are tasty and I like the variety of fish and fishing techniques of trolling and bottom fishing. My personal ethics are if after having retained a limit of trout or kokanee but hook 1 or 2 fishing for perch the day is over cuz I'm fishing bait and am uncomfortable c&r with bait in this context. There is nothing legally compelling me to do this because I am fishing for perch legally, if I only catch perch then it is game on. Most lakes have no daily limit for perch, could be out there from sun up to sun down legally after retaining my trout or kokanee. I think I already confirmed this directly with the wdfw a few years ago, if I cant find the email, I will confirm with them again. As I've said I'm not out there to fish illegally.

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Re: Got this warning from the Warden yesterday

Post by The Quadfather » Fri May 06, 2016 11:23 am

There used to be a WDFW officer named Stacy who had kind of an informal thread going within this forum. She was very helpful with giving direction on gray areas such as this one. When I have more time maybe I can link her to this thread.
(Grant it we often see 2 different people within enforcement with 2 different answers, but it is a step in the right direction)

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