Boat Wax and Algae Ideas

[farmer_aa]

I just pulled the boat out of the water and have it out of the boathouse for the season. I have a fiberglass hull, and give it a cleaning and wax at the end of the year, but algae from 7 months in the water is always an issue. As an experiment last year, I left the wax on thick in a place below the water line, without buffing it off. This didn't seem to hurt anything, and when I cleaned it, the wax and the algae came off together, but not really any easier than the rest of the hull (I am using an orange cleaner on the algae, which seems just as good as the Slimy Grimy I used to have). So I got to thinking... 2,4-D herbicide is sometimes used to kill Millfoil, would it have any affect on algae? So here's an experiment I am thinking of doing; mix a little 2,4-D in with my wax that is below the water line, and leave it on thick. Does this sound crazy or is there a boat wax on the market that has an algae repellent built in? I'm using Meguiars (sp?) RV and Marine wax, as usual. Let me know if you have any ideas that are better along the lines of the 2,4-D question!

[Amx]

2-4-D will ruin the breeding capabilities of animals. DON'T dump any on the ground where your dog or other people's dogs can get to it. One city in this state had to pay LOTS of money to some people I know because the city sprayed the bushes where there was a sign saying 'owners will maintain'. The bushes were only a few yards from the kennels where their show dogs were. The city then had to buy their property and the people bought a big place in another town.

[hewesbob]

Amx, I don't like to disagree with anything that folks believe to be true but in my own experience I use 2-4-d in my pastures with horses actively feeding and around my yard and garden where my pets are running and playing and have never in several years had any problems. Also for several years I owned Downs Lake Resort in Spokane county and at the request of Washington Fish and Game and approved by Spokane county extension agent I used 2-4-D tablets around my docks and to clear channels thru the Lilly pads for boats. Herbicides just kill broad leaf plants and if used properly they are a great tool. Pesticides are made to kill living things like bugs and can be a danger to pets. People need to understand and use these tools for their designed use. With all of that being said I don't think the 2-4-D and wax would work just because the chemical kills milfoil and other plants by traveling thru the plant to the roots and killing a plant from the roots upwards. farmer_aa I think you are onto a heck of good idea, I just think that 2-4-D might be the wrong product. I look forward to hearing what you come up with.

[Amx]

http://www.grinningplanet.com/2004/03-1 ... rticle.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/atta ... -safe.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Jerry H]

To keep the bottom fouling under control and make it easier to clean we pulled our boat two or three times during the season and power washed it. Then gave it another coat of wax. Seemed to work for us.

[farmer_aa]

I think that is certainly true. Taking the boat out and at least hosing off would help, I just don't get to it every year. I've thought about the 2,4-D idea some more and I'm doubting that it would work just because it's so water soluble. Probably would leave the wax layer quickly. Another option might be a Zinc based product, like the shaker cans for keeping moss from the roof. But Zinc also dissolves in water, so I'm still not thinking that's perfect. Somebody out there should know what will kill blue-green algae, which I'm guessing is the culprit on the boat hull, but I don't really know. I have to think that somebody out there has faced this problem and come up with a good solution.
2,4-D isn't a particularly great chemistry for use on the farm because it's weak on some of the weeds we're really after. Also, it can volatilize and cause problems in cases of spray drift, as some common garden plants, especially roses and tomatoes, are extremely sensitive to even minute amounts of exposure. Just so you know, I'm certainly not in favor of cavalier use and handling of herbicides, and I am a certified private applicator. I'm just looking for ideas and wondering if a product exists already.

[Jerry H]

If you don't mind painting the bottom of your boat you could always use anti fowling bottom paint.

[AJ's Dad]

My advice would be to just clean and wax the bottom of your boat like you normally do. In the spring, set a trap and catch that muskrat that has been chewing on your boat. Once you have him in hand, you can attach a Mr. Clean magic eraser, or a chnuk of scotch brite to his back. That way when he swims around under your boat, he'll clean off the algea and you will have a clean boat year round.
Problem solved!

[AJ's Dad]

Just found this on a forum board doing a google search.
We use a product called "REJEX" it does not eliminate the problem but it helps. Its a cream that you rub on like a wax at $20 for a bottle.

I apply it once when launching in April, pull the boat around July 1 clean the hull and reapply the REJEX until the boat is pulled for the winter.

Our neighbor puts his boat in the beginning of May and takes it out every two months. He just uses a average power washer and a long soft brush to reach under the hull, he swears by it. He's been at this longer then I have.

The other advice they gave was to use it more often. That's my favorite answer.

[farmer_aa]

I especially like the muskrat idea! I'll look up REJEX too. Thanks everyone!

[G-Man]

Straight bleach sprayed on the algae will kill it and make clean up much easier. Just need to take precautions when you spray or you'll ruin your clothes.

[MotoBoat]

Straight bleach sprayed on the algae will kill it and make clean up much easier. Just need to take precautions when you spray or you'll ruin your clothes.

Clothes sure, that is a concern. What about the bleach ending up in the storm drain?

[AJ's Dad]

Straight bleach sprayed on the algae will kill it and make clean up much easier. Just need to take precautions when you spray or you'll ruin your clothes.

Clothes sure, that is a concern. What about the bleach ending up in the storm drain?

This gentleman lives on a farm. My guess is that anything that dripped off or got rinsed off of his boat would end up in a gravel driveway or on the shop floor, and would not be enough to cause any problem at all. There is more than likely no storm drain within several miles of him.
Out of curiosity, what issues could there be if a small amount of bleach got into a storm drain?

[MotoBoat]

Straight bleach sprayed on the algae will kill it and make clean up much easier. Just need to take precautions when you spray or you'll ruin your clothes.

Clothes sure, that is a concern. What about the bleach ending up in the storm drain?

This gentleman lives on a farm. My guess is that anything that dripped off or got rinsed off of his boat would end up in a gravel driveway or on the shop floor, and would not be enough to cause any problem at all. There is more than likely no storm drain within several miles of him.
Out of curiosity, what issues could there be if a small amount of bleach got into a storm drain?

Given that scenario, the bleach would likely evaporate over time. A storm drain is for run off ie: rain water only. Storm drains are generally not connected to the sewer system. But instead, dump into holding ponds, creeks, rivers, lakes, or salt water. Where fish live and swim. All the storm drains around here have a fish symbol, and "no dumping" painted on the roadway, adjacent to the storm drain cover. Once upon a time, motor oil, antifreeze, paint and such were intentionally dumped down them. Now that is illegal, carries a fine and or clean up expense.

Bleach, in a concentrated form is strong stuff. Wouldn't take much to kill fish, crawfish, or anything else "living" in or "migrating" through that water.

I suppose rinsing bleach from the bottom of your boat. Onto the ground away from a storm drain. Might or might not end up in a water supply somewhere. Something to consider before using bleach outside, especially if on a paved surface. That could carry the water to who knows where.

This may not be an issue for farmer aa. But lot's of eyes with fowled boat bottoms potentially reading this thread!

[Jerry H]

Just one person doing this May not cause any issues. The problem is the compounding effect of all the little releases adding up to a toxic stew heading for our rivers, lakes and bays.

[AJ's Dad]

For some reason I guess I thought a storm drain would go into the sewer, where the bleach from a washing machine ends up at. The concern makes sense to me now.

[farmer_aa]

I ordered in some Rejex and I'm going to try it out. I've been using a citrus based cleaner to get the algae off, and it's been working well, but they also have a prep product so I got a gallon of that and some anti-rust and corrosion products for the farm as well. I'll let you know how all of these do, but they look like good products.

[Anglinarcher]

Wow, the more I read the less I believe our schools are teaching us today. Now that I am working near Olympia for some time, I am convinced that they put crazy juice in the water. Why not legalize pot, or all drugs? It seams that it is less harm then the genetics already here.

OK, now that I have ranted, let me say that there are some good points and some bad points that have already been made on this subject. I just don't know where to start.

First, let's go with bleach. The Corps of Engineers was looking into requiring that all boats be sprayed with a bleach solution to kill milfoil, zebra mussels, etc., before and after being removed from the water. Would it work? YES, but if I have several dozen boats being washed at a launch each day, or wind, or ..... well ...... bleach can and will do environmental damage. It is not that bad in small doses, or diluted, in fact you drink it in your chlorinated water systems and you use it to wash a lot of your white clothes. Still, take a diluted bleach solution and spray it on your lawn and watch what happens. In short, when used properly, chlorine, the gas that dissolves in water to form bleach, is an essential element for life, part of bleach, chlorinated water, the salt that we need to live. But too much, or in the wrong form, it is dangerous. Think about it, how long would you live without water, but how quick can you die if you try to breath it. Bleach is just a tool, use it correctly and all is ok, fail to and all is NOT ok.

On a side note, the Corps has backed off on that idea, for now, but it would do a whole lot better then "cleaning off all plant material from your boat and trailer when leaving the water", which is simply impossible.

Second, 2,4,D. This herbicide is one of the most commonly used "weed killers" ever used. It has a bad name because it was ONE component of agent orange. It was not the bad component, and the bad component was not even suppose to be there but it was a manufacturing mistake. Nevertheless, the uneducated and uninformed have given it a bad name. Even those seeking power over others have used the ignorance of the herbicide as leverage against them. What is the liberal mantra, never miss an opportunity to take advantage of a perceived crisis? Sorry Amax, I don't mean to call you out on this one directly, but the web sites you refer to are about as reliable as asking Carl Marx to explain the virtues of Democracy or perhaps asking a Muslim to explain the strengths of the Pope. The fact that one prefers to believe in Marxism or Democracy, Islam or Christianity, is not the question. The question is do you go to ones enemy to find the truth? Do you go to a predatory law suit to get your answers? I suggest that you already know that I would say that the idea is somewhat nonsensical.

Still, we have not answered the question of the use of 2,4,D for algae. Sorry, as has been suggested, it is not useful for Algae, which is not a "plant" in the strictest definition. The blue-green Algae is a phytoplankton, and plant killers have shown no viable impact on them. Nevertheless, 2,4,D can and is used, as indicated in Downs Lake, and in many other lakes in the US, to kill Milfoil. It is not as dangerous as some claim. but it can be overused and misused. Remember the water analogy, no use and we die, wrong use and we die, can't live without it, can't live by misusing it!

Anti-fowling bottom paints are the best idea. There are several "minerals" that are viable at restricting Algae growth. Some of these are copper, silver, and zinc. All of these minerals are mostly insoluble in their pure form, none of them are a easy to incorporate directly. All of the aforementioned minerals come in soluble salts, and can be used as paint or wax additives, but they will work only as well as the paint or wax last and allow additives to be exposed. (if the mineral is so encapsulated that it is not exposed to the water it is useless) Ironically, all three of these metals also stop the growth of zebra mussels, Barnacles, etc.

I have not looked into what the effective ingredients of Rejex is/are, and I do not know what it is intended to protect against, so let us all know how well it works.

Now that I have offended the entire West end of the State, and the schools systems of the whole state, let the fireworks follow. I don't deserve it, but I do expect it.

[AJ's Dad]

Archer,
No fireworks here, I'm just wondering what set you off on your initial comment.
Also, you seem to be pretty knowlegable on the chemicals that have been discussed. Do you work in the chemical field?
Thanks for the input. Of course this is comming from an 'East Sider"