Aluminum boat quality

[tmusky1]

Did anyone go to the Seattle boat show this year? A buddy of mine and went down there on Thursday evening. Neither one of us was looking to buy anything but figured it was something to do, "why not?"

A little background here might be needed. Both of us worked for the same boat company. I was a welding crew lead while my buddy was on my crew. As lead, I always held quality work above all else. The way I see it, there's no sense in making a bunch of junk. Well, the company has been sinking (pardon the pun) and my crew was the first to go considering we were the first to run out of work.

ANYWAY, I was actually disappointed and little appalled to see that the metal boating industry quality in general has kind of taken a turn for the worst. Everywhere we looked there was welds with cracks, smoke, craters, pinholes and grind gouges. Not to mention the sharp edges that they didn't take the 5 seconds to deburr.

Now, I realize the average boat owner with minimal metal fabrication background may not see the nit-picky details like that and even he/she does, do they care? After pondering this question, I figured that a site like this with a lot of members with varying professional backgrounds would be the perfect place to get answers.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is,

Are you happy with what the boating industry is offering you ?

What do you like/hate the most ?



P.S. I hope I don't come off looking like an "industry snob". That is SO not my intention. I hold everyone on this site in high regards no matter what the professional background and/ or trade knowledge.

[Anonymous]

As machinist I'd be looking for the best quality. I've heard that the fiberglass boat's quality and fit and finish has gone down some lately also. The electronics and their quality and endurance is pitifull. My boat is 22 years old and still works and runs great.

[smokum]

I have a 10-year-old Crestliner welded aluminum that has been thru Sekiu, Lower, mid and upper Columbia river impoundments , Puget Sound and just about everywhere we have water here. Wind, waves, tides, you name it and we've always made it back to the launch.

One SOLID little boat that has taken much and survived it all.

I train people in how to assemble and fabricate aircraft and know of which you speak in regards to quality.

IMHO, Crestliner did a great job with the "Smokum"

[The Quadfather]

Tmusky1... I myself completely appreciate this thread. I don't know which manafacturers (sp?) of boats you were looking at, but it sounds like across the board you saw things that surprised you. I myself have a riveted Lund alum. I don't have the welding issues,, but I'll be the first to say that I'd prob. rather own a properly welded boat b4 this riveted one.

I am curious if others with welded boats take the points you made in the thread and look at their boats to see if they see these areas of concern. I will probably make a note to myself somewhere that you have worked in this industry directly in welding, and tuck it away somewhere. I think you are very right though... that many of us who don't know what to look for might pass by some of these areas of concern. It is very easy to get caught up in a nice paint job, and cool upholstery, etc.

[mallard83]

Not to come off to strong or anything, but with the way the ecomomy is it is very likely the truth. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. Not neccessarily the customer in this situation, but the employer.

Employers are trying to cut costs in every way, even wages. If you are not willing to pay for a quality employee, you are not going to get quality work. I have personally experienced this in my line of work and would imagine it is much the same.

It is a shame, but will most likely continue to happen until the economy picks up and better work can be payed for.

[Bodofish]

I've noted that over the last few years as well. The true premium, custom and or white water builders seem to have kept their high standards and put out a very beautiful product but the production line outfits look like they have hired the high school welding drop outs. All I can say about most of the weld quality is peanut butter.

[G-Man]

I noticed this phenomenon several years ago when I was in the market for a new boat. I took my time and checked out the workmanship of several different manufacturers. What really caught me as odd is that dealers don't call out their suppliers on it. I know a weld doesn't have to look like a stack of dimes to be water tight and structurally sound, but I know ones that don't may not be. If the welds that you can see look like garbage, imagine what the ones you can't see look like. And since they are now defunct I feel no need to hold back judgment, the last few years that North River was in business, their construction quality was abysmal. My father was a machinist, his long time buddy a welder and I ended up repairing flight control electronics. I learned a great deal from the two of them and it is all about process control, plain and simple. A proper weld, solder joint or cut is easy to make if you follow the proper steps and take the necessary amount of time to perform them. Skill is not normally the issue, most of the quality issues that I see result from folks trying to rush through the job. Unfortunately pride in a job done right is not something that many young people have these days and that is a shame.

Mallard83, I don't think that is necessarily true in a down economy. With skilled labor, the folks that end up being unemployed are the ones who put out lower quality work or refuse to take a pay cut. Our shop continues to put out excellent work as if their jobs depend upon it, and it does. What little respect I had for unions, I lost it a long time ago.

[spindog]

Id look close at quality, Ive even heard of people hiding their own mistakes at our " airline jet builder"- scary!
I bought my 17.5 foot bass boat brand new 9 years ago and the big difference I see is the huge price increaces.
The quality is still there and has awesome welds.

[eightballsaul]

I am an electrian and I am subject to state standards for what I do. If I screw up someone could die. So yes I look for quality in everything I buy. Even if I have to pay a little more. You shouldn't feel bad in the least about noticing poor craftmanship especially in your own trade. I know I do.

[tmusky1]

Great comments from everyone. I've been thinking about this a lot since the show and I'll tell you what bothers me the most.

The company I used to work for had 2 different boats there. The first one was the last boat my crew and I worked on. We bent over backwards and worked some overtime to make sure it would be done for the show. We were proud of the work we did on that boat.

The second one was a prototype model built by a different crew. It was built in a rush with the "just get it done" mindset.

As I looked over the last boat I will ever do for that company and compared it side by side with the "just get it done" boat, I just looked at the salesman and just shook my head in disgust.

Did I mention "just get it done" carried a $85,000 price tag?

As I mentioned before, we made our way through the show seeing the same thing over and over again.

I'm wondering where the pride has gone.

[wolverine]

Here's an often quoted industry phrase that I heard more times over my 20+ year boat building industry career. " As long as it floats who cares. After all its a boat not the space shuttle".
Boat building has never been a big bucks job for the folks who actually put hands on and do the work. It has been a semi skilled industry since basically day one. Most boat building operations are sited in locations that are in rural, remote, or depressed areas where jobs are hard to come by. Employee turnover is high as once an employee gets some skills and they are able to find a better paying job for their skill set they leave. So the training and learning curve begins all over again. There are a lot of skilled, dedicated workers in the industry but no where near enough. Hopefully there is enough skill around a company to get a quality product out the door and turn the product into paychecks. In aluminum construction, getting a high quality weld in light gauge is far more difficult than in heavy gauge. Hence the abundance of heavy gauge boats in market segments that don't really require it. Heavier metal costs more, takes more materials to weld, equals a more expensive boat that also requires more horsepower to get adequate performance, which raises the cost of ownership as well as the cost of operation even further. Also the heavier boat requires a higher capacity trailer which also costs more.
I have seen some terrible looking welds (as well as layup in fiberglass boats) that were purely functional. Not pretty, but functional. A lot of builders grind their welds to make them look prettier. Some don't (like Wooldridge) and get more of a work boat look. Every extra minute spent on construction adds to the manufactures cost. They either have to take a short stroke on their margins or raise the price to their dealers. With owners wanting to put money in their pockets as a return on their investments and bean counters and time study establishing max time spent on any operation, every corner that can get cut will get cut. It all comes down to money.