Sucky Supermarket Salmon

[littleriver]

Probably the single most frustrating part of living in this beautiful Evergreen state, for me anyways, is our retarded, brain dead, "rape the resource and to hell with the consequences", "put it on the shelf no matter how rotten it is" commercial fishing industry.

I mean, what a bunch of total slobs.... how they can even look themselves in the mirror when they get done taking a shower is a source of constant amazement to me......

and I should know, I worked on a purse seiner one summer when I was in college.... we would go out and net fish for 24 hours straight and just dump everything into one big hold.. no ice... no refridgeration... when the 24 hour season was over we would run over to the factory ship and dump everything into another big unrefridgerated hold and our "fresh catch" would go to market... slowly though, so all the belly fat would end up being nice and brown and rancid like the inside of the salmon my wife brought home from the supermarket today.....

Over the years I've met many native washingtonians who simply won't eat fish.... I bring home fresh salmon and/or fresh lings or rockfish and they won't even try it to see if they like it........ when this happens though, I don't push the issue.. I know what the problem is.. I know they've had fish like my wife just brought home from the supermarket and after eating it they decided never to eat fish again.. can't blame them... if I had the same experience I would probably respond the same way.....



a sad, sad, reality because marine fish like salmon and rockfish are absolutely the best eating and the best nutrition for humans there is... when processed properly it's delicious.. there is no human on this planet who wouldn't enjoy salmon or rockfish if it was served fresh and cooked in any kind of responsible fashion........

what these people don't understand is that their problem with fish isn't the fish.. it's the retarded commercial fishermen who catch it and the way it's handled before it gets to market... the reason they don't like fish is because their only experience eating fish was eating the rotten foul tasting stuff that seems to pass for "run of the mill product" in our grocery stores today......


fortunately, for our commercial fishing industry anyways, there are a lot of people, like my wife, who love fish and who seem to be able to eat it no matter how foul or how rotten it is before they put it into a baking pan.. they add a lot of herb and spice and that covers up the rotten meat.........


but anyways, back to the horrible experience I had this afternoon.....

Wife comes home from the supermarket and she's carrying a plastic bag with a 6 or 7 pound class headless sockeye salmon carcass.... meat very rich and red like sockeye normally is and I'm thinking this one gonna be OK.... I'm instructed to break down the carcass into baking sized pieces and that's where the problem starts... open up the belly cavity and it's more brown than red.. cut off as much of the bad stuff as possible but, man, you can only do so much when a fish goes bad.... wife adds lots of spices and puts it in the oven... when it's cooking the smell is so awful I politely excuse myself to the patio for to sip my wine outside......

and when I come back into the smelly house that I call home all I can think of is to rant and rave about our state's pathetic, self-serving commercial fishermen... they are truly a disgrace to our culture......


and then I think.... What if chicken were processed the way our commercial fishermen process their catch??? Well, that would be bad... we wouldn't even have a country anymore because everyone would have died of salmonella and the Jihadis would have moved in replacing our poultry industry with their goat herds.....

I mean.. How do these morons get away with putting this kind of crap product they put onto the supermarket shelves???

Isn't there some kind of inspection system or something????





even worse... this whole problem is caused by the weather... I usually keep enough fish in the freezer to put fish on the menu a couple of times a month and that is normally enough to keep the wife from being tempted by anything she sees in the display cases when she goes grocery shopping.... but it was a cold, windy winter and it's been a long, cold, windy spring... couple this with the fact that all my fishing boats are small and exposed and the simple fact of the matter is that I haven't been able to get out enough to keep the freezer stocked....... But it looks like the weather is going to finally start breaking next week and things will be getting better....

[A9]

Can't say I've had that happen...I don't know where you shop, but I do prefer fresh fish over market fish any day....

[beerman1981]

Probably the single most frustrating part of living in this beautiful Evergreen state, for me anyways, is our retarded, brain dead, "rape the resource and to hell with the consequences", "put it on the shelf no matter how rotten it is" commercial fishing industry.

I mean, what a bunch of total slobs.... how they can even look themselves in the mirror when they get done taking a shower is a source of constant amazement to me......

and I should know, I worked on a purse seiner one summer when I was in college.... we would go out and net fish for 24 hours straight and just dump everything into one big hold.. no ice... no refridgeration... when the 24 hour season was over we would run over to the factory ship and dump everything into another big unrefridgerated hold and our "fresh catch" would go to market... slowly though, so all the belly fat would end up being nice and brown and rancid like the inside of the salmon my wife brought home from the supermarket today.....

Over the years I've met many native washingtonians who simply won't eat fish.... I bring home fresh salmon and/or fresh lings or rockfish and they won't even try it to see if they like it........ when this happens though, I don't push the issue.. I know what the problem is.. I know they've had fish like my wife just brought home from the supermarket and after eating it they decided never to eat fish again.. can't blame them... if I had the same experience I would probably respond the same way.....



a sad, sad, reality because marine fish like salmon and rockfish are absolutely the best eating and the best nutrition for humans there is... when processed properly it's delicious.. there is no human on this planet who wouldn't enjoy salmon or rockfish if it was served fresh and cooked in any kind of responsible fashion........

what these people don't understand is that their problem with fish isn't the fish.. it's the retarded commercial fishermen who catch it and the way it's handled before it gets to market... the reason they don't like fish is because their only experience eating fish was eating the rotten foul tasting stuff that seems to pass for "run of the mill product" in our grocery stores today......


fortunately, for our commercial fishing industry anyways, there are a lot of people, like my wife, who love fish and who seem to be able to eat it no matter how foul or how rotten it is before they put it into a baking pan.. they add a lot of herb and spice and that covers up the rotten meat.........


but anyways, back to the horrible experience I had this afternoon.....

Wife comes home from the supermarket and she's carrying a plastic bag with a 6 or 7 pound class headless sockeye salmon carcass.... meat very rich and red like sockeye normally is and I'm thinking this one gonna be OK.... I'm instructed to break down the carcass into baking sized pieces and that's where the problem starts... open up the belly cavity and it's more brown than red.. cut off as much of the bad stuff as possible but, man, you can only do so much when a fish goes bad.... wife adds lots of spices and puts it in the oven... when it's cooking the smell is so awful I politely excuse myself to the patio for to sip my wine outside......

and when I come back into the smelly house that I call home all I can think of is to rant and rave about our state's pathetic, self-serving commercial fishermen... they are truly a disgrace to our culture......


and then I think.... What if chicken were processed the way our commercial fishermen process their catch??? Well, that would be bad... we wouldn't even have a country anymore because everyone would have died of salmonella and the Jihadis would have moved in replacing our poultry industry with their goat herds.....

I mean.. How do these morons get away with putting this kind of crap product they put onto the supermarket shelves???

Isn't there some kind of inspection system or something????





even worse... this whole problem is caused by the weather... I usually keep enough fish in the freezer to put fish on the menu a couple of times a month and that is normally enough to keep the wife from being tempted by anything she sees in the display cases when she goes grocery shopping.... but it was a cold, windy winter and it's been a long, cold, windy spring... couple this with the fact that all my fishing boats are small and exposed and the simple fact of the matter is that I haven't been able to get out enough to keep the freezer stocked....... But it looks like the weather is going to finally start breaking next week and things will be getting better....

Being on the East side of the mountains is even worse. It takes longer to get the 'fresh' fish. I rarely buy fish from the store, unless I am in a pinch. However, the few times I have had to purchase it, I purchased it from Fred Meyers, and have actually had good luck with their salmon filets. Your story is pretty startling. How exceptionally repulsive it is, to think of fish being held for 24 hours without ice!!!! I'm a meat cutter, so I know you don't leave ANYTHING out any longer than possible in room temperatures. I can't imagine how much a fish would rot in that time. This is why if I eat fish, I eat what I have caught. As soon as I catch a fish, it goes right on ice, and is cleaned the instant I walk in the door.

[littleriver]

I probably should have noted that this is only a problem when my wife buys the fish and I'm not there...

There is some reasonably good fish in the supermarkets but one has to know what to look for... Most on this forum are probably familiar with what to look for and don't have the disappointments I tend to have when my wife brings home fish... example... when you see the color brown on any of the fat you avoid that fillet for sure... no doubt in my mind that sam and beerman do this, but my wife is another story....

for some reason she just refuses to learn how to differentiate between good fish and bad fish...... but, on the other hand, why is there any bad fish in the displays for her to have to pick through???????


can recall wandering through a high end supermarket (you know.. one of the ones located near expensive neighborhoods and that caters to the occupants of those homes) and seeing salmon fillets on ice for anywhere from about $10 a pound to over $25 a pound..... and some of the over $20 stuff was whitish, bland, and looked to be about the same consistency of opening day put and take trout but the rich ladies were qued up to buy it....... couldn't help but wonder what kind of money I would be able to get for fillets from some of the blackmouth salmon I've caught over the years (I regard freshly caught blackmouth in the 5 to 10 pound range to be the very best of the best in regard to fresh salmon fillets for the grill or broiler).. I'll bet they would have fetched $50 a pound if I had marketed them properly.........


I've requested WDFW many times to consider a rework of their commercial fishing policies. This rework would provide for licenses that would allow sportfishermen to enjoy expanded limits so they could market all or portions of their catch to restaurants, supermarkets, and seafood stores.... to rigorously maintain a policy whereby only a very select few are allowed to fish commercially and to harvest their catch in a manner that assures maximum product degradation from harvest to market is a travesty... and it's time for a change.....

[gpc]

That whole 24 hour thing is really terrible. I only buy fish under 2 circumstances. The first one being while grocery shopping if I happen to come across fish that is on sale then I will pick it up, vacuum seal it and eat it latter. I do notice a not so great taste while eating this but always figured it was the freezer, not a terrible taste but very far from fresh. The second reason is when I'm at west-port or somewhere really close to the water, then I will pick up a few lbs of fresh caught fish (mostly salmon) and that taste very good.

[Bodofish]

Ok Littleriver tell us what the real problem is. Did you have a bad experience on the seiner? Didn't make enough money? How long ago did you fish on it? Most modern fishing vessels or real professional fishermen not fly by night summer job deals have chilled sea water systems that keep the fish at 28 degrees or they ice and unload a lot more often. That was twenty two years ago when I left the seafood industry, I can only imagine it's gotten better. Of course you have our native gill netters that rape the rivers and leave their nets unchecked for days (side Rant). I processed fresh fish for 16 years before moving on to another career. In all that time, all of the operations I was involved with were extremely concerned about quality. It's hard to sell bad fish on the wholesale level. Too many QA techs carrying food science degrees doing inspections that insure quality when millions of dollars are transacted. Most seafood procesing plants are frequently inspected by the local health agencies and the FDA. Most fish plants are cleaner than your fridge, they have to be. When was the last time your fridge was scrubbed with disinfectant? Food plants it's done on a daily basis. I say "most" because like any industry there are some fly by night dirtbag operations, get in get out make a fast buck guys, I guess I should say "quality" instead. Most of the time as the salmon was unloaed from the boats it was still alive as it was brought into the processing plant. From there it is kept on ice untill it is sold or frozen which normally happens within an hour of dressing cleaning and grading for size and quality. I have personally been involved with getting multi-millions of fish to the retailers. When I was in my twenties and seining we even iced our holds. That was back in the dark ages. So as for the seafood industry, shame on you if you didn't handle your catch properly, don't blame the industry for you or your skippers short commings.
WDFW has jack to say about what commercial fishemen do with their catch accept to count it and grade for species. So don't look there for any help. As for selling your catch, be a sport fisheman or be commercial, there is no cross over it's like being a little pregnant, you are or you aren't. Talk to the guy's that stopped by Ray's Boathouse and sold their catch.
The rest falls on other government agencies that don't even want to look at a boat.
Nasty seafood in the grocery store? It's normally the retailer trying to squeeze the last penny out of a fish at your expense or he's purchased from a less than reputable supplier thinking it will sell fast enough. Another possiblilty is the retailer has bought fish that's spent too long in the freezer and has been thawed and is trying to blow it out. Have you ever been in the back of a grocery store? Most are so filthy they make me want to quit eating all together. I say be picky about the fish you buy at the retail level, it's the only way to get them to change.
Beerman's right on the mark. Sold a lot of fish to Freddies, QFC and Krogers. Now they'e together and they have good buyers and good QA staff to insure quality. It's not pre packaged in styro trays. Just say no to fish in styro trays.

Steps off soap box, tips hat.

[Drewp]

and I should know, I worked on a purse seiner one summer when I was in college.... we would go out and net fish for 24 hours straight and just dump everything into one big hold.. no ice... no refridgeration...

there is no human on this planet who wouldn't enjoy salmon or rockfish if it was served fresh and cooked in any kind of responsible fashion........

what these people don't understand is that their problem with fish isn't the fish.. it's the retarded commercial fishermen who catch it and the way it's handled before it gets to market...

and when I come back into the smelly house that I call home all I can think of is to rant and rave about our state's pathetic, self-serving commercial fishermen... they are truly a disgrace to our culture......


and then I think.... What if chicken were processed the way our commercial fishermen process their catch??? Well, that would be bad... we wouldn't even have a country anymore because everyone would have died of salmonella and the Jihadis would have moved in replacing our poultry industry with their goat herds.....

I mean.. How do these morons get away with putting this kind of crap product they put onto the supermarket shelves???

Isn't there some kind of inspection system or something????

Ok, not to say that I promote the comercial fishing of salmon in our waters here in Washington because our runs are already so depleted, but I think your complaint is a little out of date. You say that you should know what's up here because you went commercial fishing once in college, I guess I'd have to ask, when was it that you went to college? Particularly, when was it that that you don't offload on a seiner in 24 hours of fishing? Also, now-a-days, they have pretty good cirluation systems in the holds to keep fish alive, or at least chilled, and breaker boards to keep the fish from shifting around in heavy weather and bruising their meat. Furthermore, now-a-days, most of the fish you see in your local supermarkets are not local fish. The majority of the fish are from Alaska, where there are plenty of fish to go around and also where the industry is highly regulated. On the seiner I worked on 4 summers ago in AK, we offloaded everyday, and many of our fish were still alive because of our filtrated circulated holds.

Also, more so responsible for the fish that hit the markets are the processors where these fish get offloaded to. Seiners do their best to keep the majority of their fish in good condition, but once it gets offloaded to a processor, it either gets processed on board, or sent to a cannery, so ultimately, they are the ones, not the fisherman who are responsible for the QC.

Lots of people don't like fish, regardless of how they are cooked. Opinion should never be construed as fact.

To say that this is the fault of the "retarded, self-serving, disgrace to our culture, moron commercial fisherman" is straight up ignorant. They are simply individuals providing a living for their families. I understand knocking the state who regulates the industry, but you can't call out fishermen making a living in a legal profession - hate the game not the players bro.

[Bodofish]

Drewp, yep, see my rant.

[Drewp]

Drewp, yep, see my rant.

Yeah, it looks like we were rantin' at the same time. :bounce:

[Bodofish]

[littleriver]

Bodo and Drewp... you are both dillusional......


This is not a one time problem.. it's something I see over and over again in the fish markets in this state... In fact I would be happy to visit any supermarket of your choosing at any time with either of you to show you what a joke “fresh Washington caught salmon” is. (yeah.. ok, most of it probably comes from alaska, but the argument is still the same). I mean it’s pathetic…. Like I said, you choose the market, but let's set the time for a day or so after I've caught a salmon or steelhead and I'll bring in one of my fresh fillets for comparison....... Even the crap they throw around at Pike Street market is half rotten.. I’ve been there many times to check it out…. They go through this big thing about putting the whole fish in a special ice pack so visitors from out of state can take it back home with them on the aeroplane.. what a joke….. last time I was there I told one of the customers not to bother with the ice pack.. the fish was already rotten… just put it in your regular luggage.. it will just rot a little more… won’t be that much difference when you get home….


primary problem is techniques used by the commercials... gillnets and purse sieners... salmon are half rotten by the time they hit the factory boats or the docks... only good salmon is the stuff you get from the trollers... some of them actually bleed and ice their fish down as soon as caught...(oh yeah.. I should probably mention that some of the commercials do a nice job with the albacore.. if you know anyone who doesn't like fish, hit the docks at westport in Aug/sept and pick up a fresh bled tuna... clean, fillet and sear some chunks of that stuff and you will have a convert) that fish is good and gets premium dollar in the high end fish markets..... some of the alaskan stuff from bristol bay and copper river is bled and flash frozen at the dock and that tends to make it a little better but the sensitive palate can still detect the loss of quality because bristol bay fishermen use nets and when you are bringing in large numbers of fish at a time you just don't have time to bleed them right when they are caught...........

my solution is simple....... fire all the commercial fishermen. (tribal and non-tribal).. they put a garbage, crap product on the market and this truth needs to get out.......

in their place set up a program where individuals can purchase licenses that allow them to catch limited numbers of fish (say 10, 20, 40, 50, etc.) for resale... fish must be caught by hook and line methods and the price of the license would vary with the number of fish allowed..... License holders would have to compete for business with the retailers so there would be a strong motivation to get the best product possible to the market.....

using this kind of harvest policy you would have a bunch of hard core rec fishermen go out and catch the fish from the runs but they would be caught one at a time, bled, iced down, and their quality would be much higher than what's available now.... seasons and quantities would have to be tinkered with until you end up with well managed runs and high quality fish in the markets..................

only reason this can't be done is because a very few and very powerful commercial mentality slobs control the management of this resource..... this situation needs to come to an end.........

I've already mentioned the large number of native washingtonians I know who won't eat fish... won't eat any kind of fish..... in a state with so much fresh fish in the water that is a disgrace....... but there's another benchmark on this issue that hit the papers a couple of years ago..... that was some research group doing a blind taste test of various salmons in Seattle.... salmon tested were wild, hatchery, and pen raised Atlantic...... the pen raised atlantic won hands down..........

there is no question in my mind that pen raised atlantic is an inferior product to our wild pacific salmon.. the only chance it had to win that kind of taste test was for the wild pacific salmon to have been caught by one of our brain dead commercials.. caught and left to rot in a net for hours on end and then to continue rotting in the hold of the boat for a few more hours before it was cleaned and put on ice............

there is no question, there is no non-delusional basis for debate on this issue.... the commercial fishing industry in this state (and B.C. and Alaska) dishonors and humiliates us all... it's time for a change....




oh yeah.. in response to drewp's comment about "some people just don't like fish" I have on many occasions served fish that I've caught and processed properly to people who "just don't like fish" and they went nuts over it.. they couldn't figure out why they had never had fish prepared that way before..... my response was that it wasn't the way I cooked the fish it was the way I processed it after it was caught.. .the reason they liked my fish was only that it was the first really "fresh" fish they've ever tried........

[Easy Limits]

It's gotta be caught, killed and ate in the same day for me. Otherwise I won't eat it.

After working in the cooking industry for 18 years my skin crawls when I think of what is called "fresh fish".

[Bodofish]

Littleriver, you obviously missed the point of my post. If you keep going to the supermarkets you're going to keep getting nasty fish..... Just say no to styro trays If yo don't like it don't buy and educate your wife.
No arguments from me about fish being best in the first day. On the other hand a properly cared for fish, especially a large one is good for 5 days from snatch to plate. Do you really think fish makes it here from Alaska in 24 hours? Not hardly, it doesn't even make to Anchorage in 24 hours.
As a rule the boys at Pike Market fish do a pretty good job of keeping the fish well iced. I've sold a lot of fish to them over the years and every time I've been there I've seen a lot of re-iceing going on in the back. Clean ice every day and belly iced will keep the fish nice. Take a fish that's been put on ice for a week and put some gel packs in it and pack it to ship over night. Probably not the best idea but most of the folks that would do it don't know any better (the consumer). It's not going to kill them either. If you wanted to send high quality fish to someone a better bet is to send troll caught frozen at sea or from a seller / processor that deals with a quality fleet and the fish are frozen in a couple hours after coming off the boat. In the case of a high quality processor, their frozen fish are fresher than the "fresh" ones. Unfortunately the restaurant buyers know where and what to look for and they snap it up pretty quick.
As for sport fishermen knowing much about fresh fish, that's the biggest joke I've heard in years. You must have missed my post about when to clean fish. The number one rule in the food industry that absolutely can not be refuted by anyone is time and tempurature. I don't care when you bleed a fish or pull the guts. The key is getting the core temp to below freezing, which by the way isn't cold enough to freeze a fish no matter what kind it is so, don't argue anybody unless you want to take a trip the U and discuss the process with the fisheries and food science proffs, that's the botom line. I've spent way too many hours in mandated class at the U to not know what I'm talking about. Fish tossed in a fish box, on a stringer in a bag, sorry it doesn't cut it. Post spawn steelhead...... yuck! How many of those have you seen going home with a proud captor only to wind up on the table. A salmon that's about to spill it's nut and doesn't have a silver scale left? That is discusting way more than a fish from Pike Place.

So, let's recap.
1. Be very pick about your supermarket fish they don't and can't know any better.
2. Just say no to styro trays, it's petri dish in disguise.
3. No fish at any retailer is only a day old, it was never caught yesterday.
4. Don't ship retail purchased fresh fish to anyone.
5. Good frozen fish is better than most fresh.
6. Time and Temp are the rule. Any time it's over zero degrees, bacteria will be growing.
7. A lot of sport fishermen will eat anything they catch. Don't mean to offend anyone here but it's true.
8. Bottom line.... If you don't like it don't buy it. We can't can't change the world from this list so you must use consumer soverienty by not giving money to those who purvey poor quality fish or anything for that matter. It's the only way.

Nuf said? Let's be happy, fish and do it the right way.

<Steps off soap box again>

[TroutCowboy]

holy carp! you guys have some serious fissues! all i know is i can get a safe, radiation-free, kick-bass tan by eating my store-bought, farm-raised, color-added fish because there's enough carotine added to color me like a pumpkin.

peace out.

[littleriver]

Good post Bodo... glad you joined the discussion... very invigorating....
I agree that I gotta train my wife but, come on, what guy has ever really done that??
When she brings home sucky fish and the stench fills the house I go into a rage.. it helps to vent...
but the house is aired out now and I feel better...


"TroutCowboy" I'm afraid I'm going to have to fill you in on some basic truths that may shock you...


your (our) salmon is not "radiation free"...

here's the real story about the marine fish you eat...

the sea is salty because all that water just sort of dissolved everything in it's path over the last 4 billion years or so...
in other words, anything that's soluble in the earth's crust is in our sea water.. it's mostly NaCl (Sodium Chloride) but there's lots and lots of other anions and cations in smaller concentrations.........

here's the scary part.....


earth's crust is about 4 ppm Uranium... (natural uranium.. e.g. 99.28 percent U-238 and .72 percent U-235)... U-235 is one of the things they make thermonuclear devices and nuclear fuel rods with....... U-238 is primarily an alpha emitter with a half life measured in the "Billions" of years... U-235 is also an alpha emitter but with a shorter half life.. (in the hundreds of millions of years).....

can't remember the exact concentration of uranium in sea water, but it's high enough that the japanese built a processing plant some decades ago that converted sea water into nuclear fuel... cost was a bit high so it was abandoned but, believe me, the radioactive uranium is there......

it gets uglier...... salmon tend to concentrate this radioactive uranium and is one of the higher sources of this form of radiation in our food supply...... the average exposure to the average human from radioactive uranium is just under 1 millirem... not a bunch, but it's there and it's measureable...


oh my God... We all Glow in the Dark...


very scary, very scary.....

[Bodofish]

I've eaten so much salmon in my life I should be glowing. Maybe I'll turn into a super hero............

[littleriver]

the incredible hulk was created by a clandestine burst of "gamma radiation"...

uranium and most of it's daughters tend to be alpha emitters....
so hopefully the salmon we eat won't make us too green or muscular...


but an interesting thing happened during the cold war in the 1950s and 60s....

when U.S. found out that USSR had the "bomb" they started setting up radiation detection
systems to try and figure out where, when, how.. all that kind of stuff... first it was atmospheric based
but in the 60s we started putting the radiation detectors on satellites orbiting the earth....

detectors would periodically sense huge "bursts" of gamma radiation..these bursts would set off all the alarms.. the
troops would start scrambling but it always ended up being a false alarm...... finally the astronomers were brought
in to try and figure out what the problem was..... turns out that whenever a "star" (sort of like our Sun is) reaches the end of it's alloted time in our great and wonderful solar system it sort of collapses and sends off a huge burst of gamma radiation... I mean really huge.... intensities are so large that if our that happened to our sun right now it would simply vaporize us all.......


anyways, there are so many stars in our solar system (oops.. I meant to say galaxy) and beyond that every year a couple of them collapse and send out the "gamma burst".... so we are all zapped by gamma radiation much more frequently than we were ever taught to imagine.....
but we don't know about it because ionizing radiation is odorless, colorless, and tasteless and we don't, as a matter of standard practice, carry detectors around hanging from our clothing....

[TroutCowboy]

ok, so maybe i shoulda said "sunburn-free". but that was some damn interesting reading anyway. i don't think i'll be playing jeopardy or scrabble against you anytime soon. ;-)

[littleriver]

Well... I don't think you'll ever have to worry about getting skin cancer from eating salmon TroutCowboy:)