WDFW Q & A Thread - Questions for Stacie Kelsey, WDFW

[Stacie Kelsey]

I have heard they are a very bony fish and that some do eat them, but most do not. Many people do catch and release but I've seen a bunch removed too.

[Stacie Kelsey]

Looks like the crappie fishing is picking up at Silver Lake (Cowlitz County)!!!

This beauty was caught off the docks at Streeter's.

NICE!!!!


[img=http://inlinethumb49.webshots.com/46768 ... 600Q85.jpg]Silver Crappie![/img]

[Anglinarcher]

I have heard they are a very bony fish and that some do eat them, but most do not. Many people do catch and release but I've seen a bunch removed too.

Tigers, like their parents, Muskie and Pike, are bony, but they can be filleted in such a manner to make they very good with few bones.

Keep in mind that Tigers now have a 50" minimum size requirement to be able to keep them, so the chance of a Tiger Muskie being legal to "eat" is about the same chance as a snow ball in hell.

The state record was not even 50" and I have only caught three over 50" myself; in other states. A 50" plus Tiger Muskie is a real trophy. I suspect that one will come out of Curlew this or next year, and maybe one out of Newman.

[Rosann G]

ResQ.... the tiger muskies have to be 50 inches long to keep now and by that time Bill and I figure they are so full of mercury and other stuff (they are pretty much top of food chain) that we wouldn't want to eat them anyway.

[Stacie Kelsey]

This was when the min size was lower. There were several removed from Mayfield that I saw when I was doing checks a few years ago.

[natetreat]

Looks like the crappie fishing is picking up at Silver Lake (Cowlitz County)!!!

This beauty was caught off the docks at Streeter's.

NICE!!!!


[img=http://inlinethumb49.webshots.com/46768 ... 600Q85.jpg]Silver Crappie![/img]

That's a giant crappie! Wow!

[Anglinarcher]

Stacie, why are the regulations so cryptic? I am an Engineer and I still wonder how in the H E double tooth pick one is suppose to determine what is being said.

For Example, look at Roosevelt Lake.

CLOSED WATERS - Mar. 1-Friday before Memorial Day: Little Dalles power line crossing upstream 1 mile to
marked rock point.
closed waters - Mar. 1-Friday before Memorial Day: Northport power line crossing to most upstream
point of Steamboat Rock.

How in the world are we to know what the name of specific power lines are that may, or may not, cross the lake? What kind of marking is referred to as a "marked rock point"? Roosevelt is huge, so what kind of crap is the State trying to pull?

This is not the only case, and a lot of the time the references are not shown on maps and if locals know what is being said, they are not talking.

Can you explain this for me please? For some reason, it is causing me to get a bit angry tonight.

[Stacie Kelsey]

It was 17". Very nice!

[Stacie Kelsey]

Stacie, why are the regulations so cryptic? I am an Engineer and I still wonder how in the H E double tooth pick one is suppose to determine what is being said.

For Example, look at Roosevelt Lake.

CLOSED WATERS - Mar. 1-Friday before Memorial Day: Little Dalles power line crossing upstream 1 mile to
marked rock point.
closed waters - Mar. 1-Friday before Memorial Day: Northport power line crossing to most upstream
point of Steamboat Rock.

How in the world are we to know what the name of specific power lines are that may, or may not, cross the lake? What kind of marking is referred to as a "marked rock point"? Roosevelt is huge, so what kind of crap is the State trying to pull?

This is not the only case, and a lot of the time the references are not shown on maps and if locals know what is being said, they are not talking.

Can you explain this for me please? For some reason, it is causing me to get a bit angry tonight.

For us down here if we have something that says marked rock point it will be a very visibly marked rock that will leave no question what it is. I have assisted our enforcement with marking banks in the past. Sometimes it will be a marked buoy. The powerlines will be used because they are easily identifiable like the ones on the Columbia River.

As always if you have a question about what the markers mean or where they are a quick call to the local office can get you pointed in the right direction. We have a lot of those calls for waters in our area.

With these type of regs they really do try to use physical landmarks and in lieu of that they will use marked rocks, banks or buoys. Signs are so easily torn down by anglers. Sorry it's a bit confusing but the intentions behind it are well meaning!!

[Anglinarcher]

Stacie, why are the regulations so cryptic? I am an Engineer and I still wonder how in the H E double tooth pick one is suppose to determine what is being said.

For Example, look at Roosevelt Lake.

CLOSED WATERS - Mar. 1-Friday before Memorial Day: Little Dalles power line crossing upstream 1 mile to
marked rock point.
closed waters - Mar. 1-Friday before Memorial Day: Northport power line crossing to most upstream
point of Steamboat Rock.

How in the world are we to know what the name of specific power lines are that may, or may not, cross the lake? What kind of marking is referred to as a "marked rock point"? Roosevelt is huge, so what kind of crap is the State trying to pull?

This is not the only case, and a lot of the time the references are not shown on maps and if locals know what is being said, they are not talking.

Can you explain this for me please? For some reason, it is causing me to get a bit angry tonight.

For us down here if we have something that says marked rock point it will be a very visibly marked rock that will leave no question what it is. I have assisted our enforcement with marking banks in the past. Sometimes it will be a marked buoy. The powerlines will be used because they are easily identifiable like the ones on the Columbia River.

As always if you have a question about what the markers mean or where they are a quick call to the local office can get you pointed in the right direction. We have a lot of those calls for waters in our area.

With these type of regs they really do try to use physical landmarks and in lieu of that they will use marked rocks, banks or buoys. Signs are so easily torn down by anglers. Sorry it's a bit confusing but the intentions behind it are well meaning!!

Well meaning, probably, obsolete, completely.

Why don't they just use GPS coordinates now. Every person can get computer access, either their own or at a Library, and Google Earth can pin point it with these coordinates. Additionally, most maps have a way of using GPS now.

There may be 10 different power lines that cross Roosevelt, and it is stupid in today's world to assume we can find the name of some power line based entirely on what they give us.

PS, calling our region office gets blank sounds. I'm sure blank stares as well, but I cannot see those over the phone.

[MarkFromSea]

Stacie,
Stunted pan fish question: If we hit a lake for panfish and it becomes apparent that the fish are stunted from over population, what's the right thing to do? Retain all regardless of size as long as it is legal to do so in that specific water? Retain just the small ones?

Related question: Is there a memorandum or database that specifies each body of water that the state has specific intentions for and what those targets are(simplified for ease of understanding & quickness of reference)? ie: trout only fishery = Lenice, Nunnally, Merry, Badger, Williams, Hatch

Is there a way to convey that, only as an example, these 6 lakes are managed for trout and that retention of ANY other species is encouraged if legal to do so or under special reg "retain all of specific species regardless of size"?

Similar example: Stan Coffin managed for bass, catfish, blue gill, crappie>>> retain all other species if legal to do so? Targeting removal by sportsmen of pumpkinseed sunfish, blue gill of a specific size & perch?

At Hatch, WDFW took a different approach, "retain only trout" in the regs. To discourage backyard biologists from reintroducing perch back in to Hatch Lake(winter trout fishery). Seems like "feed any species other than trout to the eagles and coyotes" would have been a better approach than "dump any perch caught back into the lake". LOL I know, not allowed to feed the wildlife or waste food/game fish. Fertilize the garden?

Just looking for some guidance since I'm not a biologist backyard or other wise. I can hatch up a helluva lot of mountain, coturnix, valley quail, ect. though! I took this year off of hatching since no money in that market and I wanted to fish more!

Fish Hard and Fish Often! Mark

[Stacie Kelsey]

Stacie, why are the regulations so cryptic? I am an Engineer and I still wonder how in the H E double tooth pick one is suppose to determine what is being said.

For Example, look at Roosevelt Lake.

CLOSED WATERS - Mar. 1-Friday before Memorial Day: Little Dalles power line crossing upstream 1 mile to
marked rock point.
closed waters - Mar. 1-Friday before Memorial Day: Northport power line crossing to most upstream
point of Steamboat Rock.

How in the world are we to know what the name of specific power lines are that may, or may not, cross the lake? What kind of marking is referred to as a "marked rock point"? Roosevelt is huge, so what kind of crap is the State trying to pull?

This is not the only case, and a lot of the time the references are not shown on maps and if locals know what is being said, they are not talking.

Can you explain this for me please? For some reason, it is causing me to get a bit angry tonight.

For us down here if we have something that says marked rock point it will be a very visibly marked rock that will leave no question what it is. I have assisted our enforcement with marking banks in the past. Sometimes it will be a marked buoy. The powerlines will be used because they are easily identifiable like the ones on the Columbia River.

As always if you have a question about what the markers mean or where they are a quick call to the local office can get you pointed in the right direction. We have a lot of those calls for waters in our area.

With these type of regs they really do try to use physical landmarks and in lieu of that they will use marked rocks, banks or buoys. Signs are so easily torn down by anglers. Sorry it's a bit confusing but the intentions behind it are well meaning!!

Well meaning, probably, obsolete, completely.

Why don't they just use GPS coordinates now. Every person can get computer access, either their own or at a Library, and Google Earth can pin point it with these coordinates. Additionally, most maps have a way of using GPS now.

There may be 10 different power lines that cross Roosevelt, and it is stupid in today's world to assume we can find the name of some power line based entirely on what they give us.

PS, calling our region office gets blank sounds. I'm sure blank stares as well, but I cannot see those over the phone.

Let me make some calls and see what I can find out for you.

Actually I was just talking to a group of folks on Merwin a couple of days ago that were unhappy so much of our stuff was online because they indicated they and a lot of their pals do not have internet access.

So I think it's a balance.

It may be that you'd need to talk to the bio in charge of the water. For instance, my Supervisor oversees the boundary issues on the Wind and White Salmon rivers so he gets calls regarding boundary issues often.

But I will see if I can get you pointed in the right direction to who to speak with and see if you can pass on some suggestions that may work out better.

[Stacie Kelsey]

Stacie,
Stunted pan fish question: If we hit a lake for panfish and it becomes apparent that the fish are stunted from over population, what's the right thing to do? Retain all regardless of size as long as it is legal to do so in that specific water? Retain just the small ones?

Related question: Is there a memorandum or database that specifies each body of water that the state has specific intentions for and what those targets are(simplified for ease of understanding & quickness of reference)? ie: trout only fishery = Lenice, Nunnally, Merry, Badger, Williams, Hatch

Is there a way to convey that, only as an example, these 6 lakes are managed for trout and that retention of ANY other species is encouraged if legal to do so or under special reg "retain all of specific species regardless of size"?

Similar example: Stan Coffin managed for bass, catfish, blue gill, crappie>>> retain all other species if legal to do so? Targeting removal by sportsmen of pumpkinseed sunfish, blue gill of a specific size & perch?

At Hatch, WDFW took a different approach, "retain only trout" in the regs. To discourage backyard biologists from reintroducing perch back in to Hatch Lake(winter trout fishery). Seems like "feed any species other than trout to the eagles and coyotes" would have been a better approach than "dump any perch caught back into the lake". LOL I know, not allowed to feed the wildlife or waste food/game fish. Fertilize the garden?

Just looking for some guidance since I'm not a biologist backyard or other wise. I can hatch up a helluva lot of mountain, coturnix, valley quail, ect. though! I took this year off of hatching since no money in that market and I wanted to fish more!

Fish Hard and Fish Often! Mark

Hey Mark!

Excellent questions. We rely on angler reports to give us feedback in the waters we (as an Agency manage). When we get a report of what looks like a stunted population, we will do a fish survey and get some biological data (weights, lengths, fish scales) and then work that up to see how the fish compare to previous surveys.

If this shows there is a serious decline in size/age then we know we need to jump in and do something. This could be anything from add a predator, change the regs or something else.

But the first thing is to find out what is going on. So, if you are seeing waters where you suspect this, definitely get in touch with your local bio to find out if they are aware, if they've done any surveys and what the future objectives for that water are.

As far as a database for lake management, here in my Region I write Lake Management Plans. This is a guide to what our goals for the lake are. And that would be if its a trout only water, a warmwater only water or a mixed (both coldwater/warmwater) water. It will also cover regulation history, stocking history and anything else pertinent to the management of that water.

I'm not sure what other Regions might do but they likely do something similar. We don't have anything online, but maybe that is something to look into. So that as an angler you could look up a lake and find out if we manage it as a trout only water, etc.

I've come to learn over the past 19 years that not much is going to stand in the way of someone that feels they know what is best for a lake - and I'm talking about bucket bios.

An example I like to use is Mineral Lake in Lewis County. We have always managed this lake as a trout only, trophy type of water. The lake was used as a nursery lake in the fall/winter.

However, some anglers decided it would be perfect for bass. So we rehabbed the lake. They put the bass back in. We rehabbed the lake. They put the bass in. Then it got to a point where it was almost impossible to get permission to rehab lakes on the west side of the state.

So now there are nice big fat bass in our trophy trout lake and we manage for both. It's really sad. I'd love to catch someone doing it and get an example made of them so others might take note.

Same goes for the people that think all of our lakes should have sturgeon in them. I don't quite understand the reasoning behind this occurring but it happens everywhere.

We had a warmwater conference recently in Spokane and visiting British Columbia biologists shared their methods in dealing with illegal stocking by closing the lakes completely to all fish, even those that were legal to keep. That sent a good strong message and they haven't had any problems since!!

If you need some help finding your local bio, just let me know and I'd be glad to help. Let me know if you have any additional questions!

[MarkFromSea]

Stacie,
Thank You. I've read some of the lake management plans years ago, did search within WDFW site, sometimes older reports popped up. Usually, now, nothing current unless part of a news release subject.

So my interpretation of your response is: WDFW loves to gather info on specific waters and species from us anglers and is happy to share that info verbally, sometimes written, (weekender and other pubs), wants to do what it takes to correct a fishery that is out of balance and will take action if feasible but doesn't have any thoughts on utilizing the fisher persons to spefically target a species at a lake as a means of controlling said species. LOL We fishers certainly can fish out a lake when we are brought in large numbers. ie: small lakes - small hatchery trout population, planted.

Ooh, I don't like the "punishment" approach, close a lake. I like "positive reinforcement" training: Go here, catch this, there's lots of them, we don't want them in there, this is why, Great Job, together we have accomplished the goal!

Just saying, I think some of us would help if given the go ahead with clear direction. I read something on Stan Coffin, something to the affect, my interpretation: "we have too many blue gill here, they are too small, we want bigger blue gill in here". What it lacked was "come get em so we have fewer and the ones left will get bigger" also, "remove perch and pumpkinseed if caught since these are an undesireable competing species for baby bass". I certainly see how that could get out of hand and create LOTS of confusion.

I currently use this pamphlet from the state as a supplement to loads of other sources of info:
2011
Washington
Fishing Prospects
WHERE TO CATCH FISH IN
THE EVERGREEN STATE

It gives a run down on regions across the state, listed by counties, of select waters, available on line and years ago(maybe today) copies were available at regional offices. I found it at WDFW website, fishing section somewhere this year.

[MarkFromSea]

PS. WDFW did use, what appears it may have been, the punishment approach with Hatch. They didn't close it, even worse, they left it dead through the winter fishery a couple years back. Poor Xwisconnyfisherman, and others, didn't know and he, they, fished it as shown by a report he left while there wasn't a single fish in the lake. Search lake reports, Hatch, here at WALAKES. I knew, some others knew, WDFW did report it in local news, Spokane Valley Spokesman???? But some did not know.

Agreed, the bucket biologists are moving in the opposite direction that the state wants to...... individual fisheries????

WA has some very complicated fisheries, you've got a good but sometimes difficult job. My hat is off to you and your coworkers!

[Stacie Kelsey]

The part you'd be involved that I mentioned above would be the reg changes. That's where something like an open limit could come into play. I know Oregon has used anglers to help with fish removal by way of angling.

We are sent the Prospect info each year to update. It's a good document. I am working on an interactive section on the website for my Region where you click on a map of our lakes and what pops up would be everything associated with that lake including pictures of the ramp, bank access, species, regulations, management of the lake (some of what you were alluding to above) and any other info that might be of interest. It will also be available in hard copy.

The reason I like the complete lake closure for bucket bio lakes is that it sends a very clear message: knock it off or your not going to fish at all. It also encourages others to turn those people in so they don't risk losing their fishing opportunities. Not too likely to happen though.

We never had our plans online. It just never really came up. But again I could see where it would be good info.

[MarkFromSea]

http://wdfw.wa.gov/licensing/sepa/2008/08047_hatch.pdf

Lake management plan, Hatch, stored in SEPA funds docs. just as an example, this is a really short one, brief history of Hatch.

You're correct, I couldn't find lake management plans for SW WA.... Some others, Grant, Adams, some others, some found under SEPA.... some randum document access where they filed it for some other requirement I guess LOL..

search SEPA 2010,????????? Some management plans and pre rehab plans.

ouch,,,,,, punish the individual whenever possible.... We've lost so much use of public lands due to vandalism, trash, other regs..... Used to camp wherever, whenever, Seep Lakes. Now, cram everyone into one lake now to camp, so sad to lose the freedom due to regs and the few who ruin it for us....

South gate into the Quincy lakes area was closed this last weekend due to vandalism, as posted.

Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Thanks Again, your work is appreciated.

Ouch, sorry to take up soooo much time, I'll give it a rest now.. LOL I should have been out fishing today anyway. Thanks Stacie!

[Stacie Kelsey]

Keep in mind the idea of liking such a drastic measure comes from complete and utter frustration for fish showing up where we don't want them to be. I think we do a pretty good job offering a variety of fish to catch but because someone wants to put fish where they think they should go - it ruins it for everyone.

[MarkFromSea]

You're right Stacie, the few ruin it for the many.

So on another note, I just found something that looks pretty cool, includes your region also I think.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/licensing/sepa/sepa_ ... _docs.html

This is some current programs still available for comment before approval. Catfish stocking looked to be one of the issues.

[Stacie Kelsey]

SEPA is for areas that not have been previously stocked with a particular species. My two lakes should not be on there since they already went through SEPA. Weird.

But yeah hoping to get the catfish stocking rebooted since it fell to the wayside a few years ago.