Chapman lake ******Revised*******

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ridgeratt
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Chapman lake ******Revised*******

Post by ridgeratt » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:58 pm

So while I have nothing to do I'm checking out the 2015 Fish Stocking for the lakes'


I see that last fall the WDFW planted 104k fingerling kokanees in Chapman lake in Spokane county.



http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01705/wdfw01705.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


SPOKANE COUNTY
Lake Name

Chapman Lake 146 OD KOKK 104,880 July


I know it has had a closed access for a couple of years and when I checked it is still closed.
So my question is why are we planting a resource that is unattainable to the sportsman?

http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/washington/114/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by ridgeratt on Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Chapman lake

Post by hewesfisher » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:15 am

Because WDFW does not want the kokanee fishery to crash while they negotiate purchase options with landowners. I think the state should close the lake to ALL fishing until the access issue is resolved. The select few with access shouldn't benefit from that exclusive access, and closing the lake to ALL fishing would force them to endure the same conditions as everyone else. Won't hurt the fishery one bit either.
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Re: Chapman lake

Post by hewesbob » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:48 am

Well said Phil

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Re: Chapman lake

Post by strider43 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:31 am

there is only private property around the lake; no public access and WDFW stocks the lake?

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Re: Chapman lake

Post by ridgeratt » Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:20 pm

Seriously they don't want it to crash!!! [cursing] [cursing] How can it crash when it's not being fished?

Why did they only plant 70,000 in Loon then which is one of the best koke lakes on this side and gets a ton of publicity.
Then again they could have planted some of them in Davis or Deer which both used to have great Koke fishing.

Horseshoe also has a Koke fishery but none were planted there.

Seems to be lopsided Logic.

They could have planted the token 10 - 15 thousand they plant in lakes Sportsman do have access to.

I also wonder if this House Bill goes into effect it would never have access.

http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/ ... s/2215.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Chapman lake

Post by hewesfisher » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:05 am

ridgeratt wrote:Seriously they don't want it to crash!!! [cursing] [cursing] How can it crash when it's not being fished?

Why did they only plant 70,000 in Loon then which is one of the best koke lakes on this side and gets a ton of publicity.
Then again they could have planted some of them in Davis or Deer which both used to have great Koke fishing.

Horseshoe also has a Koke fishery but none were planted there.

Seems to be lopsided Logic.

They could have planted the token 10 - 15 thousand they plant in lakes Sportsman do have access to.

I also wonder if this House Bill goes into effect it would never have access.

http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/ ... s/2215.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They don't spawn in the lake and the kokanee fishery there has always relied on artificial means of maintaining the kokanee population. Was done privately for years and there was a hatchery right on the lake. The hatchery has been closed for years and the state took over stocking.

Strider43 - There is public land around the lake, just not where access can be obtained. The only usable spot on the lake for launching is private, and was open to the public for many years. Long story short, when the owner/caretakers died it went to family who is not interested in running the resort and they closed the gates on the only useable access. If someone wants to hike in, uphill, on state land to the lake, no problem. No way to get a boat in though and the large parcel of state land with shoreline access is steep and rocky, not to mention an island surrounded by private property. It's a bad situation all the way around. Family wants BIG money for the resort, and last I heard through the grapevine, negotiations are stalled. [thumbdn]
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Re: Chapman lake

Post by ridgeratt » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:24 pm

So if they don't spawn in the lake then why are they trying to sustain it with no access? Especially to the numbers they are planting. Thats nothing more than fish chum for the bass that are in there. I think they should let it lapse until there is a launch that the can be used.

When "Oly" ran the place it was a great fishery and always pleasant but now it is liability to sportsman. We used to go fish the largemouth after dark during the summer.

Just my views, and like "O rings" we all have one.

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Re: Chapman lake

Post by hewesfisher » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:23 am

](*,)
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Re: Chapman lake

Post by ridgeratt » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:20 pm

Hewesfisher

I don't understand the response about beating your head against the wall. It would seem you have a vested interest in this stocking and are in favor of it even though those fry are bought by Sportsman dollars of which they aren't able to access.
As I see you have a Spangle Homeplate perhaps you are reaping the benefits of this private fishery and choose not to share.

If your not benefiting from this I would enjoy hearing why you think this is a "just" stocking. Perhaps you have some time line that there will be some sort of WDFW launch for sportsman to use?

Thank you in advance

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Re: Chapman lake

Post by hewesfisher » Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:01 am

I shared what I learned from WDFW at the end of the Badger Lake rehab meeting and you've taken me to task on THEIR answer. Why? Take your criticisms to WDFW.

I have NO interest, vested or otherwise, in Chapman Lake (haven't been on the lake for 7 or 8yrs), nor the fishery, but do feel it's unfair a select few get to enjoy private access to a public resource and that's why I think WDFW should close the lake to all fishing. Now ask yourself, why would I even suggest such an action if I were secretly benefiting??? You sure read a lot between the lines and make inaccurate assumptions. O-ring indeed.

You're right, I do have a Spangle residence, but our boat is kept at our Seven Bays property 78miles away. Can't launch at Chapman anyway, our boat is too big, and no way I'd drive 300+ miles (78 miles to get the boat, 78 back, 15 to the lake, 15 back, 78 back to Seven Bays, and 78 home) for a 10 fish limit of 10" - 12" kokanee. [rolleyes]

I'm done with this topic. [thumbdn]
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Re: Chapman lake

Post by strider43 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:42 am

hewesfisher wrote:I shared what I learned from WDFW at the end of the Badger Lake rehab meeting and you've taken me to task on THEIR answer. Why? Take your criticisms to WDFW.

I have NO interest, vested or otherwise, in Chapman Lake (haven't been on the lake for 7 or 8yrs), nor the fishery, but do feel it's unfair a select few get to enjoy private access to a public resource and that's why I think WDFW should close the lake to all fishing. Now ask yourself, why would I even suggest such an action if I were secretly benefiting??? You sure read a lot between the lines and make inaccurate assumptions. O-ring indeed.

You're right, I do have a Spangle residence, but our boat is kept at our Seven Bays property 78miles away. Can't launch at Chapman anyway, our boat is too big, and no way I'd drive 300+ miles (78 miles to get the boat, 78 back, 15 to the lake, 15 back, 78 back to Seven Bays, and 78 home) for a 10 fish limit of 10" - 12" kokanee. [rolleyes]

I'm done with this topic. [thumbdn]
thanks for sharing your knowledge regarding this lake.

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Re: Chapman lake

Post by ridgeratt » Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:01 pm

Hewes
Let me establish this first and foremost "I have no axe to grind with you. If you read the original post it was about 104k Kokes planted in a closed lake. You responded with the answer that they wanted to keep the kokes in the lake even thought there is no public access. I have had time to research this some more and I have found that the WDFW have mismanaged sportsmans funds in planting this lake from 2012,2013,2014 to the tune of 100k fish every year.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/plants/statewide/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


hewesfisher wrote:I shared what I learned from WDFW at the end of the Badger Lake rehab meeting and you've taken me to task on THEIR answer. Why? Take your criticisms to WDFW.

I have NO interest, vested or otherwise, in Chapman Lake (haven't been on the lake for 7 or 8yrs), nor the fishery, but do feel it's unfair a select few get to enjoy private access to a public resource and that's why I think WDFW should close the lake to all fishing. Now ask yourself, why would I even suggest such an action if I were secretly benefiting??? You sure read a lot between the lines and make inaccurate assumptions. O-ring indeed.


You're right, I do have a Spangle residence, but our boat is kept at our Seven Bays property 78miles away. Can't launch at Chapman anyway, our boat is too big, and no way I'd drive 300+ miles (78 miles to get the boat, 78 back, 15 to the lake, 15 back, 78 back to Seven Bays, and 78 home) for a 10 fish limit of 10" - 12" kokanee. [rolleyes]



I'm done with this topic. [thumbdn]

I am also in a agreement that this fishery should be closed. But I do entertain how you suggest to close a private lake.The WDFW should stop all planting of any fish from sportsmans dollars until the access is secured. Regardless if they want to keep the fishery or not.

It appears that you are equally adept at reading between the lines and inaccurate assumptions





I bid you a Good Day [thumbsup]

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Re: Chapman lake

Post by hewesfisher » Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:55 am

http://www.washingtonlakes.com/forum/vi ... ab#p190802" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Chapman lake

Post by ridgeratt » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:20 pm

I have sent this to the WDFW:



April 04,2015



To Whom This may Concern:
Washington Dept. of Fisheries & Wildlife

Subject: Depriving the Sportsman of a resource.


It appears that the WDFW has not made the best use of Sportsman Dollars in the stocking of Kokanee in Eastern Washington. For the last 4 years stocked a disproportional amount of Kokanee fry in a lake that has no public access since from what I can tell is in the year 2011. This lake is Chapman in South Spokane county.

My understanding is that the Family has chose to lock the gates and deny access to Sportsman. The WDFW has worked on securing a launch but from everything I can find the talks have stalled and therefore a mute point.

My question since Sportsman Dollars fund the raising of fish to be planted in the lakes. Why are we funding a Private Fishery to the extent of a 100,000 fry a year in this lake.
This resource is to be accessible to the sportsman to harvest. The amount of Kokanees planted in the 3 counties of Stevens, Pend Oreille, and Spokane. These are the areas I researched .

According to the 2015 statistics of the http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/plants/statewide/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01705/wdfw01705.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Kokanees Stockings were:

Pend Oreille County: No fish

Stevens County: Deep Lake 15,000 Fry
Loon Lake 70,000 Fry
Pierre Lake 10,000 Fry

Spokane County: Chapman Lake 104,880 Fry with No Public Access

This is 33% more fish than planted in Loon Which is advertised as a top Kokanee fishery in Eastern Washington.

In the 2014 Stocking Stats: http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01582/wdfw01582.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kokanee Stocking were:

Pend Oreille County: No Fish

Stevens County: Deep Lake 25,000 Fry
Deer Lake 25,000 Put and Take
Loon Lake 50,000 Fry

Spokane County: Chapman Lake: 100,000 Fry with no public access

This is 50% more fish than planted in Loon as well.

In the 2013 Stocking Stats: http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01489/wdfw01489.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kokanee Stocking were:

Pend Oreille County: Davis Lake 25,000 Fry

Stevens Count: Deep Lake 34,000 Fry
Deer Lake 25,000 Put and Take
Loon Lake 100,000 Fry

Spokane County: Chapman Lake 100,000 Fry

In the 2012 Stocking Stats: http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01376/wdfw01376.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pend Oreille County: No Fish

Stevens County: Deer Lake 25,000 Fry
Loon Lake 100,000 Fry

Spokane County: Chapman Lake 100,000 Fry

It seems that you have deprived the Sportsman of the State of Washington over 400,000 fish that should have been available to them and not to a Private fishery with no public access. You have also deprived the Local communities of the money that would have been spent to bolster their economy's.

When I review the link: http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/washington/species/9008/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This list's all of the lakes in Washington that are supposed to have Kokanees in them; even giving a detailed fishing time frame as to when to fish;
Deer Lake in Stevens county doesn't reflect any opportunities what so ever. But back in the 1970's and 1980's Deer had a terrific Kokanee Fishery with some fish in a 3+ pound range. Davis Lake also used to have a Kokanee fishery that was remarkable.

I believe that the Sportsman of this state would be better served if the Stocking of Chapman lake was discontinued and those fish planted in lake where they will have access to this resource.

If you review the current WDFW fish Pamphlet for the years of 2014 -2015 you will find that Chapman Lake is still listed on page 86 showing the 10 fish limit along with the chumming legal disclosure and the icon showing a boat.

This what the WDFW link tells me about Chapman Lake: http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/washington/114/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I can understand that once the Private land owners closed off the access that you would have stocked it the following year in hopes of reaching an MOU for access. But since that seems to have fallen by the way side.


Thank you for your time:


I would encourage you also to contact them and share your views.

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Re: Chapman lake ******Revised*******

Post by ridgeratt » Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:58 am

The part I'm struggling with is 44% of all the Kokanee over the last 4 years allocated for Eastern Washington in Region 1 were released in a private lake with no public access. These fish were paid for by Sportsman Dollars and to be enjoyed by all not a select few.

This is as close to Social Media as I get. If someone wants to post it on any Media pages I'm ok with that.


I would encourage you also to contact them (WDFW) and share your views.

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Re: Chapman lake ******Revised*******

Post by ridgeratt » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:35 pm

Here is the WDFW reply:
All text is in Black red doesn't seem to show up in the fields so well


Name Removed!! (To protect the Guilty) [biggrin]

Thank you for your inquiry to the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife regarding kokanee stocking in Eastern Washington. To help answer the questions you raised, I have copied parts of your email (in black italicized text) and have addressed those pieces individually (in red text). If you have additional questions or comments regarding this issue, do not hesitate to contact me.





My understanding is that the Family has chose to lock the gates and deny access to Sportsman. The WDFW has worked on securing a launch but from everything I can find the talks have stalled and therefore a mute point.



You are correct in that the Family closed the old resort and has not allowed public access for several years. However, last year WDFW submitted and presented a Boating Facilities Program (BFP) project through the Recreation and Conservation Office (RCO). The funds for these projects will be awarded in June 2015. If RCO receives the level of funding they anticipate, the Chapman Lake BFP project will receive partial funding, but not enough to conduct the entire project. The WDFW is exploring alternative funding to compliment anticipated RCO funding as to complete the project. At this point, to say that talks have stalled is inaccurate.



My question since Sportsman Dollars fund the raising of fish to be planted in the lakes. Why are we funding a Private Fishery to the extent of a 100,000 fry a year in this lake. This resource is to be accessible to the sportsman to harvest.



Chapman Lake continues to be managed by the State of Washington to have a fishery available when WDFW secures long-term access. (More on that later in this response.) In the meantime, although motorized boats cannot be launched at the boat launch in the closed resort at this time, users are entitled to access the lake via foot traffic through the neighboring Department of Natural Resources (DNR) property and fish the lake during the open season. Although not ideal circumstances, limited access is still provided until an access agreement has been reached.



It seems that you have deprived the Sportsman of the State of Washington over 400,000 fish that should have been available to them and not to a Private fishery with no public access. You have also deprived the Local communities of the money that would have been spent to bolster their economy's.



Information about WDFW fish stocking processes will help you understand that this is not the case. District Fish Biologists plan fish allotments, or the number of fish to be stocked in each water, with hatchery staff. Once allotments have been decided, hatchery staff grows the required number of fish and stock them at the appropriate time in those waters.



The other kokanee lakes in this Region, such as Deep, Loon, Deer, and Pierre, are not deprived of fish, but receive the total number of fish that the District Fish Biologist has allotted for them. If the District Fish Biologist decides, at some point in the future, to cease kokanee stocking at Chapman Lake, those fish would not be raised, divided up, and stocked into those other lakes. Rather, the biologist would instruct hatchery staff not to raise those fish to begin with.



When I review the link: http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/washington/species/9008/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This list's all of the lakes in Washington that are supposed to have Kokanees in them; even giving a detailed fishing time frame as to when to fish; Deer Lake in Stevens county doesn't reflect any opportunities what so ever. But back in the 1970's and 1980's Deer had a terrific Kokanee Fishery with some fish in a 3+ pound range. Davis Lake also used to have a Kokanee fishery that was remarkable.



The link you provided above directs you to our Fish Washington website. You are correct in that this page includes the lakes where particular fish species, such as kokanee, can be found. On each specific lake page, the fishing calendar provides information on when anglers can expect the best fishing to occur on the most popular species found in the lake. If a lake contains a species, but that species may not be the most popular, it may not receive its own line in the calendar, but will be mentioned as another “species you might catch”. Such is the case with kokanee in Deer Lake in Stevens County. On this website, lakes such as Deer, that list kokanee as a species you might catch, does not necessarily infer that fishing will be sub-par for that species.



I believe that the Sportsman of this state would be better served if the Stocking of Chapman lake was discontinued and those fish planted in lake where they will have access to this resource.



Kokanee populations are different than trout populations in that there is at least a two-year lag time between when kokanee fry are stocked, and when they grow large enough to be caught by anglers. Because of that fact, it is important to maintain consistent kokanee year class strength. One or two missing year classes could result in gaps in the fishery that would be extremely hard, if not impossible, to recover.



At this point in time, WDFW remains optimistic that anglers will have motorized boat access to Chapman Lake in the future. The kokanee that are stocked into Chapman Lake are fairly small (~200 fish per pound) and require little cost to raise (less than 2 cents per fish). This is a relatively low cost to ensure that when access is regained, an intact kokanee fishery will be present for anglers to enjoy. The WDFW has already suspended trout stocking in that lake. If public access cannot be worked out, kokanee stocking would also be suspended. As noted earlier, if kokanee stocking were discontinued at Chapman Lake, those fish would not be added to any other lake, but would simply not be raised in our hatchery to begin with.



Again, thank you for your inquiry.



Regards,



Randall Osborne

District 2 Fisheries Biologist

Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife

2315 N. Discovery Place

Spokane Valley, WA 99216

(509) 892-1001 ext. 302

trout_westwa - Copy

http://www.wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/washington/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Chapman lake ******Revised*******

Post by hewesbob » Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:17 am

For some reason I am not able to email the wdfw so would some body please ask them why they don't punch a road thru the DNR land and put a lunch there. It would be faster and cheaper then screwing around with Mary Caplin! I believe there are a lot of folks that would volunteer to help. Two years ago I tried to buy the old resort from the Caplin family, I talked with Marys father, he was more then happy to sell and see the old resort open again but then along came Mary.To say the least see was a Bword to try to deal with. Her main interest seemed to be inheritance taxes and/or capital gains taxes.She also told me the property was from her mothers family and her mother had passed away and once again she wasn't sure how to handle the taxes. I say forget this family and their run down property and put a launch on DNR property. That would make Marys property worth a lot less money and she would not have to worry about so many taxes and we would all have a place to fish.

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Re: Chapman lake ******Revised*******

Post by ridgeratt » Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:47 am

Hewesbob

I have no good answer why you can't send them a email the link to the Bio is on the page. I have heard that they figure to buy the land and establish a launch will cost over a Million bucks. I have it from a person who is fairly close to the WDFW that they feel this is a no win either way.

When I read the Bio response that they would just kill the allotment for chapman instead of planting them in other Kokanee lakes on the east side it makes me wonder why I even buy a license. The logic is instead of giving the sportsman more oppertunity let's just produce less. I was told that 600+ fry are to a gallon so let them go for a car ride to a differant lake.
I believe the cost for that fry is under a nickel each. But just look at what the return is to the local economy in all the money spent to harvest them.

Someone had posted the My Letter to them on the WDFW Facebook page. Now that link to the states Kokanee cams and responses have been removed.

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Re: Chapman lake ******Revised*******

Post by Larry3215 » Sun Apr 12, 2015 4:19 pm

I thought the answer from the biologist was pretty clear. They only order the number of fry they think any particular lake needs. Just because one lake doesnt get any fry that doesnt mean the other lakes should get more.

The fry are cheap as you and he said, so Im pretty sure they are basing stocking levels on the biology of the lake and possibly the expected fishing pressure - not cost. Over stocking a lake could result in the fry - or other fish - dying due to lack of food or some other problem from over stocking. Im no expert, but it seems they hire biologists who should know these things.

Im sure budget is a factor in the decisions, but I doubt its the main one. The fry are just too cheep.

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Re: Chapman lake ******Revised*******

Post by ridgeratt » Sun Apr 12, 2015 4:53 pm

Larry3215 wrote:I thought the answer from the biologist was pretty clear. They only order the number of fry they think any particular lake needs. Just because one lake doesnt get any fry that doesnt mean the other lakes should get more.

The fry are cheap as you and he said, so Im pretty sure they are basing stocking levels on the biology of the lake and possibly the expected fishing pressure - not cost. Over stocking a lake could result in the fry - or other fish - dying due to lack of food or some other problem from over stocking. Im no expert, but it seems they hire biologists who should know these things.

Im sure budget is a factor in the decisions, but I doubt its the main one. The fry are just too cheep.
Granted a body of water can only support so many fish of differant strains but they all don't eat the same food base.
But if you review the lakes in Eastern Washington that are supposed to have a Kokanee fishery they could take those fry and do a release in some of them to help the existing populations.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/washington/species/9008/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is the link to ALL the lakes that have kokanee in them and if you just look at the 2 counties of Stevens, Pend Oreille it seems there are a few lakes that could benefit from a bucket or 2.

Both the lakes in Spokane county have a limited or no access at this time.

Bonnie you launch and it's a mile run up a creek to get to it and Chapman the gates are locked so I really discount both of these.

Turn them loose in Roosevelt for goodness sakes. I'm sure it can support several 100,000 more fry.

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