Settle for a token fishery? Give up because the tribes havnt lost yet? Really? I say fight the good fight and do whats right. Keep it all closed, Stop the gillnetting. It can be done if everyone gets behind it.
Its currently not legal for them to gillnet, they plan to do so anyway despite noah closures, doesnt that mean wdfw police could site and arrest them?...and if thats not the case we the people should do anything and everything we can to hamper them. Protest at their reservations, boycott their businesses and spread the word. If everyone gets behind it the tribes will get punched so bad in their wallet theyll have no choice but to cooperate. Advertise it on tv, radio and shame them. The public will respond .
No salmon fishing in PUget Sound?
Forum rules
Forum Post Guidelines: This Forum is rated “Family Friendly”. Civil discussions are encouraged and welcomed. Name calling, negative, harassing, or threatening comments will be removed and may result in suspension or IP Ban without notice. Please refer to the Terms of Service and Forum Guidelines post for more information. Thank you
Forum Post Guidelines: This Forum is rated “Family Friendly”. Civil discussions are encouraged and welcomed. Name calling, negative, harassing, or threatening comments will be removed and may result in suspension or IP Ban without notice. Please refer to the Terms of Service and Forum Guidelines post for more information. Thank you
Re: No salmon fishing in PUget Sound?
hi my name is john, and I'm a fishing addict.
Re: No salmon fishing in PUget Sound?
This was post from nw tribe website. I'd send link but there are a lot of foul language comments that wont be necessary on this website.
Statement from Lorraine Loomis, Chair, NW Indian Fisheries Commission:
The treaty tribes are extremely disappointed that after decades of successful co-management of treaty and non-treaty salmon fisheries, the treaty tribes and state have not yet been able to reach a final agreement on this year’s fisheries.
Negotiations between the federal government, the treaty tribes, and the state are continuing and we are hopeful that we will yet be able to reach agreement.
The treaty tribes submitted their proposed fisheries to NOAA in April following the final PFMC meeting and have received preliminary approval. As a result, certain limited tribal fisheries on spring chinook are going forward now.
These fisheries are the same fisheries that the treaty tribes have conducted in years past with state and NOAA/NMFS agreement.
The federal agencies have considered the biological impacts of these fisheries on listed species and have concluded that these fisheries will target harvestable levels of spring chinook and “will not jeopardize any listed species [and] would not adversely modify any designated critical habitat….”
This conclusion is based on modeled impacts to steelhead and chinook that are significantly less than exploitation rates that NMFS has approved in the past or recommended limits for this season.
Tribal treaty fisheries are essential to the tribes’ subsistence, economy, and culture and way of life. The spring chinook fishery in particular is important to the treaty tribes because it is the first run of salmon to return for the season.
These fisheries allow the tribe to exercise its treaty rights within conservation objectives developed by NOAA and agreed to by the treaty tribes and state. These fisheries will not impact the long-term sustainability of salmon runs.
We are disappointed that some sportsmen may protest our treaty fisheries. All winter and spring, sports anglers in Puget Sound have targeted immature chinook salmon called blackmouth. Some of these blackmouth are spring chinook destined for tribal terminal area fishing areas in rivers.
If sportsmen wanted to spend their energy more productively, they could work with the tribes to protect and restore salmon habitat, which is being lost faster than it can be restored, and is the main cause for the ongoing decline of salmon across the region.
Contact: Tony Meyer, NWIFC, 360.438.1180; 360.951.9341 cell
Statement from Lorraine Loomis, Chair, NW Indian Fisheries Commission:
The treaty tribes are extremely disappointed that after decades of successful co-management of treaty and non-treaty salmon fisheries, the treaty tribes and state have not yet been able to reach a final agreement on this year’s fisheries.
Negotiations between the federal government, the treaty tribes, and the state are continuing and we are hopeful that we will yet be able to reach agreement.
The treaty tribes submitted their proposed fisheries to NOAA in April following the final PFMC meeting and have received preliminary approval. As a result, certain limited tribal fisheries on spring chinook are going forward now.
These fisheries are the same fisheries that the treaty tribes have conducted in years past with state and NOAA/NMFS agreement.
The federal agencies have considered the biological impacts of these fisheries on listed species and have concluded that these fisheries will target harvestable levels of spring chinook and “will not jeopardize any listed species [and] would not adversely modify any designated critical habitat….”
This conclusion is based on modeled impacts to steelhead and chinook that are significantly less than exploitation rates that NMFS has approved in the past or recommended limits for this season.
Tribal treaty fisheries are essential to the tribes’ subsistence, economy, and culture and way of life. The spring chinook fishery in particular is important to the treaty tribes because it is the first run of salmon to return for the season.
These fisheries allow the tribe to exercise its treaty rights within conservation objectives developed by NOAA and agreed to by the treaty tribes and state. These fisheries will not impact the long-term sustainability of salmon runs.
We are disappointed that some sportsmen may protest our treaty fisheries. All winter and spring, sports anglers in Puget Sound have targeted immature chinook salmon called blackmouth. Some of these blackmouth are spring chinook destined for tribal terminal area fishing areas in rivers.
If sportsmen wanted to spend their energy more productively, they could work with the tribes to protect and restore salmon habitat, which is being lost faster than it can be restored, and is the main cause for the ongoing decline of salmon across the region.
Contact: Tony Meyer, NWIFC, 360.438.1180; 360.951.9341 cell
-
NWBoater45
- Petty Officer
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:45 am
Re: No salmon fishing in PUget Sound?
"Tribal treaty fisheries are essential to the tribes’ subsistence, economy, and culture and way of life. The spring chinook fishery in particular is important to the treaty tribes because it is the first run of salmon to return for the season."
I am so sick of the Tribes for using the above statement. This may have been true 50-60 years ago when the treaties were written but they do not hold any water now.
Subsistence? What, are you kidding me? There is a flipping grocery store on every corner. Washington is not like NW Alasaka were the natives are dependent on wildlife for survival. Have they not heard of Albertsons? Walmart? The fisheries have absolutely nothing to do with subsistence. Also the tribes own and operate several hatcheries on their lands. So they are getting an excess of returning fish straight to their door steps. How much of these returning fish are counted towards their 50%? My guess is ZERO. I bet only fish they catch in their Killnets are counted towards the quota.
Economy? yeah right!! $2.3B in revenue from Casinos! Yes that B is for Billions!!! Don't tell me tribes are suffering from the MONOPOLY they have on State gaming. It's time make the tibes open their books for state auditing. Or it is time to allow non-tribal casinos to have the same gaming rights as tribe owned casinos.
Culture and way of life? Yes I will give them that as long as they extend then same to every sport fishermen and commercial fishermen as well. I am rapidly approaching 50 and can't remember a year that I didn't fish. I grew up with a fishing pole in my hands. So as a Washington native fishing has been in my families culture as well as well as many other families in Washington. Just because we are of a different skin color we can't have fishing in our culture? That is a little racist to me. And for a lot of us, yes fishing is a way of life. It is how we provide food for our families. It is in our blood!
Now I understand that more, much more needs to be done in the restoration of habitat but restoring habitat means absolutely nothing when you are still stringing Killnets across the rivers killing every fish in sight!
I am so sick of the Tribes for using the above statement. This may have been true 50-60 years ago when the treaties were written but they do not hold any water now.
Subsistence? What, are you kidding me? There is a flipping grocery store on every corner. Washington is not like NW Alasaka were the natives are dependent on wildlife for survival. Have they not heard of Albertsons? Walmart? The fisheries have absolutely nothing to do with subsistence. Also the tribes own and operate several hatcheries on their lands. So they are getting an excess of returning fish straight to their door steps. How much of these returning fish are counted towards their 50%? My guess is ZERO. I bet only fish they catch in their Killnets are counted towards the quota.
Economy? yeah right!! $2.3B in revenue from Casinos! Yes that B is for Billions!!! Don't tell me tribes are suffering from the MONOPOLY they have on State gaming. It's time make the tibes open their books for state auditing. Or it is time to allow non-tribal casinos to have the same gaming rights as tribe owned casinos.
Culture and way of life? Yes I will give them that as long as they extend then same to every sport fishermen and commercial fishermen as well. I am rapidly approaching 50 and can't remember a year that I didn't fish. I grew up with a fishing pole in my hands. So as a Washington native fishing has been in my families culture as well as well as many other families in Washington. Just because we are of a different skin color we can't have fishing in our culture? That is a little racist to me. And for a lot of us, yes fishing is a way of life. It is how we provide food for our families. It is in our blood!
Now I understand that more, much more needs to be done in the restoration of habitat but restoring habitat means absolutely nothing when you are still stringing Killnets across the rivers killing every fish in sight!
-
Bodofish
- Vice Admiral Three Stars
- Posts: 5407
- Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:59 pm
- Location: Woodinville
- Contact:
Re: No salmon fishing in PUget Sound?
It's just the typical rhetoric back and forth you'd expect from a lawyer. Since the WDFW didn't just buckle for the first time since the beginning of the NOF, the Tribes are just all kinds of butt hurt. They still hold nine out of ten cards. They had originally said they only were only going to ask for a ceremonial fishing opening but I guess they're asking for more so they can give something up. When in court the tribes are always playing the Mother Earth Jones card saying how close they are to the environment and how they are such good stewards of the environment... blah blah blah. Just take a drive around any "Res" and have a good look for littering, polluting and the like, video what you see, show it in court during the inevitable trial and there'd be some eyes opened very wide.
I'm all for fair, our ancestors laid claim to the land they roamed and we gave them small parcels of land on which to live. It's a huge step forward from what would have happened any other place else in the world, to this day. I'm guessing the term I'm looking for is genocide. The point is none of us did the horrible deeds that those in our society did so many years ago. The fact remains they all have a leg up when it comes to being a subset of our society, they get to pick and choose which laws, morays and benifits they want to use and they get their own sovereign patch of land, their choice be as much a part of us as they like or as little, a far sight better deal than any other refugees get here. They have access to all the social benefits of our society with out paying into any of it. They are allowed to run pretty much tax free casinos that make more money than most of the States they're in. So far they have had the first crack at most fisheries to make sure they get their fair share/half, with virtually no catch reporting to see how much/many are really caught so that half is nothing more than a joke or and off hand guess. The season starts to look bad and the sports fishermen are the ones that pay the price along with the commercial guys. As a former fish buyer / processor I can't even count the number of times I've turned a boat away from the dock because all the fish were inedible by the time they tried to sell, weather it be from letting the net soak for multiple days rather than picking it every few hours and then there's oh I had a few too many.... I lived with and next to the Lummi Nation for many years. So many sad stories, some very good and good hearted people and at the same time they have their dregs just like we do. I could go on for hours but I'll stop with, all the Tribes are very lucky they have their own sovereign states and can participate in all the social benefits of our society. They took us to court in our courts and won their case. They're not doing anything we that we would not. If they want no fishing till the run heals, great, lets do it. But lets not fudge by saying any of their fishing is for subsistence or it will be an economic hardship when they have welfare, unemployment and Medicare at their disposal. I'm pretty sure none of them are doing the live in the lodge house and living off the land, it's just not so. Ceremonial catch, I'm all for it, we all get to pray the way we want. I just think what's good for goose is good for the gander.
I'm all for fair, our ancestors laid claim to the land they roamed and we gave them small parcels of land on which to live. It's a huge step forward from what would have happened any other place else in the world, to this day. I'm guessing the term I'm looking for is genocide. The point is none of us did the horrible deeds that those in our society did so many years ago. The fact remains they all have a leg up when it comes to being a subset of our society, they get to pick and choose which laws, morays and benifits they want to use and they get their own sovereign patch of land, their choice be as much a part of us as they like or as little, a far sight better deal than any other refugees get here. They have access to all the social benefits of our society with out paying into any of it. They are allowed to run pretty much tax free casinos that make more money than most of the States they're in. So far they have had the first crack at most fisheries to make sure they get their fair share/half, with virtually no catch reporting to see how much/many are really caught so that half is nothing more than a joke or and off hand guess. The season starts to look bad and the sports fishermen are the ones that pay the price along with the commercial guys. As a former fish buyer / processor I can't even count the number of times I've turned a boat away from the dock because all the fish were inedible by the time they tried to sell, weather it be from letting the net soak for multiple days rather than picking it every few hours and then there's oh I had a few too many.... I lived with and next to the Lummi Nation for many years. So many sad stories, some very good and good hearted people and at the same time they have their dregs just like we do. I could go on for hours but I'll stop with, all the Tribes are very lucky they have their own sovereign states and can participate in all the social benefits of our society. They took us to court in our courts and won their case. They're not doing anything we that we would not. If they want no fishing till the run heals, great, lets do it. But lets not fudge by saying any of their fishing is for subsistence or it will be an economic hardship when they have welfare, unemployment and Medicare at their disposal. I'm pretty sure none of them are doing the live in the lodge house and living off the land, it's just not so. Ceremonial catch, I'm all for it, we all get to pray the way we want. I just think what's good for goose is good for the gander.
Build a man a fire and he's warm for the night. Light a man on fire and he's warm the rest of his life!
Re: No salmon fishing in PUget Sound?
Like I said it ain't money or survival its just a power trip. They have the power and we don't.
-
BARCHASER10
- Captain
- Posts: 646
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:36 pm
- Location: Bothell, WA
- Contact:
Re: No salmon fishing in PUget Sound?
Bodo
Great post, right on. I have two resers over at CQ in July. MA 4 is supposed to be open and the deadline for MA 4 is 12 miles from CQ at Sail/Seal Rocks. I can run the 12 miles pretty easy if the wind aint blowing. So I'll get some fishing this summer anyway. No way I'm going to stay in Neah, an Indian town. I might tow my boat back/forth but I don't even want to pay those people a launch fee.
I thought this was a good post over on PP. I don't think the sduthor would mind me stealing it:
The idea that the tribes get 50% of the fish is a joke. They are notorious for cheating and keeping a lot more than 50%. I'm really getting sick and tired of hearing the following, "Tribal treaty fisheries are essential to the tribes’ subsistence, economy, and culture and way of life. The spring chinook fishery in particular is important to the treaty tribes because it is the first run of salmon to return for the season." What a crock of sh!t! This is about greed and hatred. Aren't the millions tax payers give them enough? Isn't gambling and in the future pot growing and selling enough? Illegal cigarette sales, liquor etc. Constant examples of poaching, littering, polluting, netting fish and taking only the eggs. It goes on and on. This has nothing to do with race. It has to do with people that have grown accustom to bilking the system. (They aren't the only ones.) Has anyone looked at their high school graduation rates? Is that our fault?
They say we took their lands but when you listen to how some talk about how their brave ancestors fought for their land (against other tribes) you have to wonder what the difference is. They try hard to hide the fact that not only did they fight other tribes but they also kept slaves from those beaten tribes. I'm certainly not saying we are perfect I'm only saying that this is a world where the fittest survive. They lived that way so they need to accept that it's over. The indian wars are over and they lost. Now they need to become part of society and stop with the culture and way of life sh!t. The culture and way of life joke only comes into play when they want something. They follow the old ways and culture about the same as Donald Trump practices political correctness.
It's time that we start getting ours. If we can't get ours in fishing agreements then we need to start taxing their casinos and any sales of anything on their so called lands. They need to pay taxes for our roads, schools and anything else they use that is funded by the American tax payer. I've worked 50 of my 64 years and paid taxes all those years. Why don't I or the rest of you that have done or do the same get the same breaks and advantages that they do? Especially considering they contribute nothing to better this country.
Over the years that I've fished in this state I like everyone else have seen the incredible decline in the fisheries. While that is happening they are still "getting theirs". Also during that time I've seen horrific atrocities relating to fish and game management by them. I didn't just wake up and decide that they are bad. It's taken years of watching the sh!t go down. Let it be known that I don't hate indians but as a whole it's very difficult to respect them. I know plenty of Native Americans and get along with them and consider them friends BUT they are not complaining and/or sticking it to the man. I am 20% Native American. I have NEVER tried to get any compensation or benefits because of it. It's time they tow their share of the load.
Great post, right on. I have two resers over at CQ in July. MA 4 is supposed to be open and the deadline for MA 4 is 12 miles from CQ at Sail/Seal Rocks. I can run the 12 miles pretty easy if the wind aint blowing. So I'll get some fishing this summer anyway. No way I'm going to stay in Neah, an Indian town. I might tow my boat back/forth but I don't even want to pay those people a launch fee.
I thought this was a good post over on PP. I don't think the sduthor would mind me stealing it:
The idea that the tribes get 50% of the fish is a joke. They are notorious for cheating and keeping a lot more than 50%. I'm really getting sick and tired of hearing the following, "Tribal treaty fisheries are essential to the tribes’ subsistence, economy, and culture and way of life. The spring chinook fishery in particular is important to the treaty tribes because it is the first run of salmon to return for the season." What a crock of sh!t! This is about greed and hatred. Aren't the millions tax payers give them enough? Isn't gambling and in the future pot growing and selling enough? Illegal cigarette sales, liquor etc. Constant examples of poaching, littering, polluting, netting fish and taking only the eggs. It goes on and on. This has nothing to do with race. It has to do with people that have grown accustom to bilking the system. (They aren't the only ones.) Has anyone looked at their high school graduation rates? Is that our fault?
They say we took their lands but when you listen to how some talk about how their brave ancestors fought for their land (against other tribes) you have to wonder what the difference is. They try hard to hide the fact that not only did they fight other tribes but they also kept slaves from those beaten tribes. I'm certainly not saying we are perfect I'm only saying that this is a world where the fittest survive. They lived that way so they need to accept that it's over. The indian wars are over and they lost. Now they need to become part of society and stop with the culture and way of life sh!t. The culture and way of life joke only comes into play when they want something. They follow the old ways and culture about the same as Donald Trump practices political correctness.
It's time that we start getting ours. If we can't get ours in fishing agreements then we need to start taxing their casinos and any sales of anything on their so called lands. They need to pay taxes for our roads, schools and anything else they use that is funded by the American tax payer. I've worked 50 of my 64 years and paid taxes all those years. Why don't I or the rest of you that have done or do the same get the same breaks and advantages that they do? Especially considering they contribute nothing to better this country.
Over the years that I've fished in this state I like everyone else have seen the incredible decline in the fisheries. While that is happening they are still "getting theirs". Also during that time I've seen horrific atrocities relating to fish and game management by them. I didn't just wake up and decide that they are bad. It's taken years of watching the sh!t go down. Let it be known that I don't hate indians but as a whole it's very difficult to respect them. I know plenty of Native Americans and get along with them and consider them friends BUT they are not complaining and/or sticking it to the man. I am 20% Native American. I have NEVER tried to get any compensation or benefits because of it. It's time they tow their share of the load.
Re: No salmon fishing in PUget Sound?
The Neah Bay tribe gave up some of their Chinook quota so us REC guys could fish this year. At least that's what I've read on another fishing site (bloody decks).
Another thing I've read is it's mainly the Puyallup and Muckleshoot Tribes that have been everyone the big head ache.
Personally I don't see the Makah tribe as the enemy given the fact they gave us part of their quota so we can fish. I plan on support Sekiu and NB this year.
[quote="BARCHASER"]Bodo
Great post, right on. I have two resers over at CQ in July. MA 4 is supposed to be open and the deadline for MA 4 is 12 miles from CQ at Sail/Seal Rocks. I can run the 12 miles pretty easy if the wind aint blowing. So I'll get some fishing this summer anyway. No way I'm going to stay in Neah, an Indian town. I might tow my boat back/forth but I don't even want to pay those people a launch fee.
quote]
Another thing I've read is it's mainly the Puyallup and Muckleshoot Tribes that have been everyone the big head ache.
Personally I don't see the Makah tribe as the enemy given the fact they gave us part of their quota so we can fish. I plan on support Sekiu and NB this year.
[quote="BARCHASER"]Bodo
Great post, right on. I have two resers over at CQ in July. MA 4 is supposed to be open and the deadline for MA 4 is 12 miles from CQ at Sail/Seal Rocks. I can run the 12 miles pretty easy if the wind aint blowing. So I'll get some fishing this summer anyway. No way I'm going to stay in Neah, an Indian town. I might tow my boat back/forth but I don't even want to pay those people a launch fee.
quote]
Re: No salmon fishing in PUget Sound?
http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/puge ... fisheries/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The latest from ST. Looks like it is the tribes wanting to seriously curtail the recreational fishing (and micro manage every part of it), but hardly reduce their net schedule at all. Then they say they all about conserving the salmon runs, but their actions speak otherwise. If they are really about conservation they should be pushing for a complete net ban.
Does not seem like it should be that hard to come up with a quota, split it in half (if we do not revise the Boldt decision) and have each side get their share as they see fit. But that would rely on having accurate counts for all parties involved to insure one side is not over fishing.
The above article makes it sound like quotas can be roughly agreed upon, but then the tribe wants to dictate how the recreational fishery is conducted. There are always two sides to each story, it would be nice if there was more transparency so we could all direct our energy to the right place. Seems like there is a lot of finger pointing in this process with each side blaming the other. But the tribes are the ones still fishing and using gill nets to boot, while all other fishing is shut down.
The latest from ST. Looks like it is the tribes wanting to seriously curtail the recreational fishing (and micro manage every part of it), but hardly reduce their net schedule at all. Then they say they all about conserving the salmon runs, but their actions speak otherwise. If they are really about conservation they should be pushing for a complete net ban.
Does not seem like it should be that hard to come up with a quota, split it in half (if we do not revise the Boldt decision) and have each side get their share as they see fit. But that would rely on having accurate counts for all parties involved to insure one side is not over fishing.
The above article makes it sound like quotas can be roughly agreed upon, but then the tribe wants to dictate how the recreational fishery is conducted. There are always two sides to each story, it would be nice if there was more transparency so we could all direct our energy to the right place. Seems like there is a lot of finger pointing in this process with each side blaming the other. But the tribes are the ones still fishing and using gill nets to boot, while all other fishing is shut down.
Re: No salmon fishing in PUget Sound?
All parties seem to be suffering from a serious lack of trust. And to some extent, everyone is justified in not trusting the other parties. It reminds me of trying to negotiate a settlement between two neighbors who have been feuding for years. Nobody wants to trust the other side, and at the same time, everyone is insulted by proposed oversight to increase trust in the system (what, don't you trust us?). Take the Puyallup for instance - it seems reckless to allow the regular sport flossery when only a few hundred wild chinook are forecast to return. Can any of us really say with confidence that no wild chinook would be retained if there is a sport opening? Or even if not retained, how many times will they be snagged and released?
As for the openings in the Marine Areas - how can WDFW determine that this fishery won't unintentionally target fish from the most threatened rivers? And how can the impact on wild stocks truly be measured?
Now, in this time of crisis, is the time to develop tools and systems to prevent these impasses in the future. How about mandatory reporting of all salmon fishing days within 48 hours, with a "check-in" required before every trip? Spend a few thousand dollars on the development of an app, and have a backup automated call-in system for the technological hold-outs. This monitoring system would also ensure than anglers have no excuse to not know about emergency regulations and closures.
Can alternate harvest methods be proposed for the tribes? If the tribes are going to try to dictate how sport fisheries are conducted, why not? Fish traps and weirs? These would allow for a completely selective harvest, and also would serve as monitoring tools on the rivers. I see no reason these catch methods wouldn't be at least as effective as gill netting on most systems. Of course, the tribe would then need to somehow decide how this catch is divided (it is much easier when I have my own net and I can say those fish are mine). Weirs are less practical where river mouths have been dug into a deep channel instead of being allowed to fan out naturally, but this would be one more reason to restore this critical estuary habitat (I believe this is already planned for the Skagit).
As for the openings in the Marine Areas - how can WDFW determine that this fishery won't unintentionally target fish from the most threatened rivers? And how can the impact on wild stocks truly be measured?
Now, in this time of crisis, is the time to develop tools and systems to prevent these impasses in the future. How about mandatory reporting of all salmon fishing days within 48 hours, with a "check-in" required before every trip? Spend a few thousand dollars on the development of an app, and have a backup automated call-in system for the technological hold-outs. This monitoring system would also ensure than anglers have no excuse to not know about emergency regulations and closures.
Can alternate harvest methods be proposed for the tribes? If the tribes are going to try to dictate how sport fisheries are conducted, why not? Fish traps and weirs? These would allow for a completely selective harvest, and also would serve as monitoring tools on the rivers. I see no reason these catch methods wouldn't be at least as effective as gill netting on most systems. Of course, the tribe would then need to somehow decide how this catch is divided (it is much easier when I have my own net and I can say those fish are mine). Weirs are less practical where river mouths have been dug into a deep channel instead of being allowed to fan out naturally, but this would be one more reason to restore this critical estuary habitat (I believe this is already planned for the Skagit).
-
BARCHASER10
- Captain
- Posts: 646
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:36 pm
- Location: Bothell, WA
- Contact:
Re: No salmon fishing in PUget Sound?
You are probably right about the Makahs. They obviously have a vested interest in sports fishing. That's where they get some of their local income that supports business and pays taxes. That's the only reason they would want to help sports fishing. But if you have watched the Makahs over the last ten years or more, they routinely go over the allotted salmon quotas they agreed to.
It is the Muks and the Puyallups. They are the most aggressive and also seem to have taken the leadership role. There are around 20 tribes with treaty rights and they all have different agendas. They all talk about their native American heritage, but its mostly about money. We don't have a heritage, only they do.
It is the Muks and the Puyallups. They are the most aggressive and also seem to have taken the leadership role. There are around 20 tribes with treaty rights and they all have different agendas. They all talk about their native American heritage, but its mostly about money. We don't have a heritage, only they do.
For Reel wrote:The Neah Bay tribe gave up some of their Chinook quota so us REC guys could fish this year. At least that's what I've read on another fishing site (bloody decks).
Another thing I've read is it's mainly the Puyallup and Muckleshoot Tribes that have been everyone the big head ache.
Personally I don't see the Makah tribe as the enemy given the fact they gave us part of their quota so we can fish. I plan on support Sekiu and NB this year.
BARCHASER wrote:Bodo
Great post, right on. I have two resers over at CQ in July. MA 4 is supposed to be open and the deadline for MA 4 is 12 miles from CQ at Sail/Seal Rocks. I can run the 12 miles pretty easy if the wind aint blowing. So I'll get some fishing this summer anyway. No way I'm going to stay in Neah, an Indian town. I might tow my boat back/forth but I don't even want to pay those people a launch fee.
quote]
Re: No salmon fishing in PUget Sound?
I think those are great ideas. Especially the fish weir. How easy would it be to identify wild steelhead and kings and just release them instead of killing them in gill nets? Very easy. Wdfw could easily stop by at regular intervalls and monotor these weirs too. on top of that i think wdfw could put barbless hooks and bait ban in affect on ps rivers. That way we are being more selective aswell, which would be sportfishers compromise to the natives.Jakefish wrote:All parties seem to be suffering from a serious lack of trust. And to some extent, everyone is justified in not trusting the other parties. It reminds me of trying to negotiate a settlement between two neighbors who have been feuding for years. Nobody wants to trust the other side, and at the same time, everyone is insulted by proposed oversight to increase trust in the system (what, don't you trust us?). Take the Puyallup for instance - it seems reckless to allow the regular sport flossery when only a few hundred wild chinook are forecast to return. Can any of us really say with confidence that no wild chinook would be retained if there is a sport opening? Or even if not retained, how many times will they be snagged and released?
As for the openings in the Marine Areas - how can WDFW determine that this fishery won't unintentionally target fish from the most threatened rivers? And how can the impact on wild stocks truly be measured?
Now, in this time of crisis, is the time to develop tools and systems to prevent these impasses in the future. How about mandatory reporting of all salmon fishing days within 48 hours, with a "check-in" required before every trip? Spend a few thousand dollars on the development of an app, and have a backup automated call-in system for the technological hold-outs. This monitoring system would also ensure than anglers have no excuse to not know about emergency regulations and closures.
Can alternate harvest methods be proposed for the tribes? If the tribes are going to try to dictate how sport fisheries are conducted, why not? Fish traps and weirs? These would allow for a completely selective harvest, and also would serve as monitoring tools on the rivers. I see no reason these catch methods wouldn't be at least as effective as gill netting on most systems. Of course, the tribe would then need to somehow decide how this catch is divided (it is much easier when I have my own net and I can say those fish are mine). Weirs are less practical where river mouths have been dug into a deep channel instead of being allowed to fan out naturally, but this would be one more reason to restore this critical estuary habitat (I believe this is already planned for the Skagit).
hi my name is john, and I'm a fishing addict.
-
Bodofish
- Vice Admiral Three Stars
- Posts: 5407
- Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:59 pm
- Location: Woodinville
- Contact:
Re: No salmon fishing in PUget Sound?
fish traps and weirs are really more along the lines of a traditional fishing method. No one on the face of this earth can show any tribes were fishing with gill nets before we introduced them to them. For most NW tribes, the preferred method of fishing was a shovel used for chasing those wily clams. As far as heritage goes, gill nets, not so much.
Build a man a fire and he's warm for the night. Light a man on fire and he's warm the rest of his life!
Re: No salmon fishing in PUget Sound?
Some of these "natives" are just white guys with sometimes <1/4 native blood. I personally know one guy who has flaming red hair and blue eyes and literally looks like he could have played on the set of brave heart and fishes for one of the Puget sound tribes. Maybe I should go to Norway or somewhere like that and see if I can join the club with my 25% Norwegian heritage and get citizenship. It probably wouldn't work for me. But these ones I see at times just look like your typically white guy...not all but some.
We are all mad including me because this sharing system don't work.
I do not support anything tribal related to casino, nicotine, or anything like that. To be honest though I'll probably fish from one or two of their ports but that's it. I've also heard the tribes are going to start selling marijuana now. So that puts them in another business.
We are all mad including me because this sharing system don't work.
I do not support anything tribal related to casino, nicotine, or anything like that. To be honest though I'll probably fish from one or two of their ports but that's it. I've also heard the tribes are going to start selling marijuana now. So that puts them in another business.
[/quote][/quote]BARCHASER wrote:They all talk about their native American heritage, but its mostly about money. We don't have a heritage, only they do.
quote]
