So many questions about the statewide freshwater bait rules

[guitarfisher]

Am I nuts or are the statewide freshwater bait rules conflicting?

"Where use of bait is prohibited, or where lures
or flies are used voluntarily, game fish may
be caught and released until the daily limit is
retained."

Aren't the words released and retained mutually exclusive?
How does one retain fish that have been released?
Does this translate to: you're done for the day after catching and releasing a limit (e.g. 5 on most lakes)?
Or does this simply mean that on those days you plan to retain fish and it is legal to do so, you can continue to catch and release all day, or until the daily limit is retained?

I interpret regulations for a living and I gotta say this one is written kind of screwy. Maybe I'm just over-thinking it.
I'm interested in what you all think...

[Matt]

It means that you may continue to catch and release fish indefinitely until/unless you retain 5 fish. You may continue to catch and release fish UNTIL the daily limit of fish is retained.

If all fish counted towards the daily limit it would say, "Daily limit is first 5 legal fish caught" or something to that effect.

[Gringo Pescador]

You're over thinking it...

Retained means keeping the fish (fish on the stringer, bonked, headed for the bbq).
Released means - well - released, let go to swim off into the sunset.

If you are using bait - 5 fish - that's it. Doesn't matter if you keep em or throw em back. You catch 5 fish and you are done for the day.

If you are not using bait - 5 fish on the stringer and you are done for the day. You can C&R 100 fish if you want and continue fishing - UNTIL that 5th fish is on the stringer - then you are done.

Hope this helps.

[Matt]

Another thing to consider about this rule specifically is that this is designed for bait restricted areas. The rule states "Where bait is prohibited" meaning in areas (such as Cresent Lake) where bait cannot be used.

[guitarfisher]

Thanks guys - your replies do help clarify. However, I have another scenario for inquiry:

Assume I've purchased a two-pole endorsement. I'm aware the limits in the regs apply when using the two-pole. I'm fishing the two-pole on a legal 5-trout-limit lake without gear restrictions. One pole is geared strictly artificial (e.g. a fly rod). The second is a spinning or baitcasting rod rigged with bait. I'm actively working both lines in the water. Now, say I haven't had any action on the bait, but I've C&R'd 5 on the fly rod - or maybe I've caught, say 2 on bait and C&R'd several on the fly rod. Am I done for the day, simply because I have bait in the water??

[guitarfisher]

Another thing to consider about this rule specifically is that this is designed for bait restricted areas. The rule states "Where bait is prohibited" meaning in areas (such as Cresent Lake) where bait cannot be used.

Good point, Matt.

[tnj8222]

Thanks guys - your replies do help clarify. However, I have another scenario for inquiry:

Assume I've purchased a two-pole endorsement. I'm aware the limits in the regs apply when using the two-pole. I'm fishing the two-pole on a legal 5-trout-limit lake without gear restrictions. One pole is geared strictly artificial (e.g. a fly rod). The second is a spinning or baitcasting rod rigged with bait. I'm actively working both lines in the water. Now, say I haven't had any action on the bait, but I've C&R'd 5 on the fly rod - or maybe I've caught, say 2 on bait and C&R'd several on the fly rod. Am I done for the day, simply because I have bait in the water??

Still the same. You are done when you keep the 5th or catch the 5th with bait. Two poles Change nothing

[Toni]

Thanks guys - your replies do help clarify. However, I have another scenario for inquiry:

Assume I've purchased a two-pole endorsement. I'm aware the limits in the regs apply when using the two-pole. I'm fishing the two-pole on a legal 5-trout-limit lake without gear restrictions. One pole is geared strictly artificial (e.g. a fly rod). The second is a spinning or baitcasting rod rigged with bait. I'm actively working both lines in the water. Now, say I haven't had any action on the bait, but I've C&R'd 5 on the fly rod - or maybe I've caught, say 2 on bait and C&R'd several on the fly rod. Am I done for the day, simply because I have bait in the water??

Still the same. You are done when you keep the 5th or catch the 5th with bait. Two poles Change nothing

That is the way I see it, too. Basically if you want to catch more than 5 trout (It is meant for trout isn't it?) don't use any bait.

[Bass Woody]

my understanding is if you use any form of consumable food, fish food or bait, then the first 5 fish you catch are your limit, released or kept. anything else you use that can't be consumed as food for a fish is catch and release until you wanna keep 5. 1 person with 2 pole does not get a bigger limit, as of one being bait and the other not being well theres your loop hole. that goes on being one person word unless you were watched. good luck and when you play dumb they hate that, lol. game wardens are fun. just kiddin Rich, local GW.

[haludar]

Primus rocks. Les Claypool is the man.

[hewesfisher]

Thanks guys - your replies do help clarify. However, I have another scenario for inquiry:

Assume I've purchased a two-pole endorsement. I'm aware the limits in the regs apply when using the two-pole. I'm fishing the two-pole on a legal 5-trout-limit lake without gear restrictions. One pole is geared strictly artificial (e.g. a fly rod). The second is a spinning or baitcasting rod rigged with bait. I'm actively working both lines in the water. Now, say I haven't had any action on the bait, but I've C&R'd 5 on the fly rod - or maybe I've caught, say 2 on bait and C&R'd several on the fly rod. Am I done for the day, simply because I have bait in the water??

Still the same. You are done when you keep the 5th or catch the 5th with bait. Two poles Change nothing

That is the way I see it, too. Basically if you want to catch more than 5 trout (It is meant for trout isn't it?) don't use any bait.

The statewide 5 fish limit released or retained being discussed here is specifically for trout when fishing with bait. The regs define "bait" quite well, so there shouldn't be any confusion. :shaking2:

[CRW]

Another thing to consider about this rule specifically is that this is designed for bait restricted areas. The rule states "Where bait is prohibited" meaning in areas (such as Cresent Lake) where bait cannot be used.

It also says right after that "OR",

or where lures or flies are used voluntarily,

So it is not just for bait restricted areas

[jens]

Still the same. You are done when you keep the 5th or catch the 5th with bait. Two poles Change nothing

That is the way I see it, too. Basically if you want to catch more than 5 trout (It is meant for trout isn't it?) don't use any bait.

The statewide 5 fish limit released or retained being discussed here is specifically for trout when fishing with bait. The regs define "bait" quite well, so there shouldn't be any confusion. :shaking2:

Oh, but there is. I have come across many an angler who is using powerbait or power eggs and catch and release all day long and think they are doing nothing wrong. You'd think the floating fish nearby would be a hint?

[guitarfisher]

Another thing to consider about this rule specifically is that this is designed for bait restricted areas. The rule states "Where bait is prohibited" meaning in areas (such as Cresent Lake) where bait cannot be used.

It also says right after that "OR",

or where lures or flies are used voluntarily,

So it is not just for bait restricted areas

Seems like I stirred up a controversial topic. Let's keep it going...

Two things:

1. I'd like to emphasize CRW's point about use of the word "or". The reg says "Where use of bait is prohibited, or where lures or flies are used voluntarily,..."
So, this applies to all waters subject to the general statewide freshwater rules - not only to waters where bait is prohibited.

2. I'd like to rephrase my original question in practical terms:
I have a two-pole endorsement and I use it! I typically use one fly rod and one spinning outfit, usually at the same time (occasionally I'll change to 2 spinning outfits: 1 for hardware, 1 for bait).
So, I may hang crawler or powerbait on the spinning outfit and drop it in the water. While I'm waiting for a hit on the bait-riggged spinning outfit I'll start casting artificials on the fly rod. I now have both lines in the water. On a good day I may C&R more than 5 trout on the artificials before I get a hit on the bait. Note that I haven't "retained" (kept) any fish yet. Am I violating the regulation?

[G-Man]

Just to clarify, bait includes the use of scent and scented plastics. So smearing some krill paste on a flatfish is considered fishing with bait.

As for the two rod question, you need to focus on what he fish is caught with. If it isn't with the one that has bait and you release it, that fish does not count toward your daily limit. Any fish caught with the rod that has bait would count towards your limit regardless if it was kept or released.

[CRW]

Am I violating the regulation?

I agree with G-man, no you are not since the one that caught the fish was with the artificials .

[hewesfisher]

Seems like I stirred up a controversial topic. Let's keep it going...

Two things:

1. I'd like to emphasize CRW's point about use of the word "or". The reg says "Where use of bait is prohibited, or where lures or flies are used voluntarily,..."
So, this applies to all waters subject to the general statewide freshwater rules - not only to waters where bait is prohibited.

If you choose to voluntarily use non-bait lures or flies in lakes where bait is not prohibited, you can catch and release as long as you wish until you retain (aka keep) your 5 trout limit.

2. I'd like to rephrase my original question in practical terms:
I have a two-pole endorsement and I use it! I typically use one fly rod and one spinning outfit, usually at the same time (occasionally I'll change to 2 spinning outfits: 1 for hardware, 1 for bait).
So, I may hang crawler or powerbait on the spinning outfit and drop it in the water. While I'm waiting for a hit on the bait-riggged spinning outfit I'll start casting artificials on the fly rod. I now have both lines in the water. On a good day I may C&R more than 5 trout on the artificials before I get a hit on the bait. Note that I haven't "retained" (kept) any fish yet. Am I violating the regulation?

We're really making this too complicated. Unless you are applying scent to your flies, then the only rod the rule applies to is the one being used with bait. When you catch 5 trout on that outfit, using bait (as defined in the regs), and you continue fishing that outfit with bait, yes, you are violating the rules. Once you have caught and/or retained 5 trout using bait, you are through trout fishing for the day. It's that simple - really.

G-Man is right.