Regulations Question

[Ball_Gawd]

For those of us that are trolling, if we tip with corn, maggots or worms are we using Hardware or Bait??
AS we all understand the difference, with the hook being swallowed half way to the guts but I have never seen the Regs stateing it in those words.

You are actually doing both.

Bait as defined by WDFW is: "Bait Anything that attracts fish or shellfish by scent and/or flavor." This is straight from the on-line regs from WDFW.

Any fish you caught with your hooks tipped with corn, maggots or worms would count towards your five fish caught with bait. After catching five with this technique you would be done for the day.

[skagit510]

it would be nice to see this rule more known and better yet enforced. kudos to the poster who asked the question and to those following up. and jd no worries, just stating my case and position on the matter, this is a healthy discussion, hopefully folks will get something from it.

[hewesfisher]

hewesfisher, I think you may have missed the mark a little.

Nope, not at all.

The second sentence is the one that pertains to this topic. It clearly states that when fishing with bait all caught fish count toward your limit. One part that may be getting confused in all this is the way some may be looking at the limit. The limit counts both towards fish retained (no matter what method of fishing is employed) and towards the the total number of fish caught using any kind of bait. rockjiggr, if you caught all five of your trout using the straight worm I belive you would have been in violation. Bait as defined by WDFW is: "Bait Anything that attracts fish or shellfish by scent and/or flavor. This includes any device made of feathers, hair, fiber, wood, metal, glass, cork, leather, rubber, or plastic, which uses scent and/or flavoring to attract fish or wildlife."

By these definitions you may catch and release all day long, basically if you add nothing to the hook. Any lure is good as long as you don't add scent or flavoring (i.e. worm, power bait, marshmellow).

Keep in mind bait, as defined in the regs, is the deciding factor. If you attach something to your lure or hook that does not contain scent and/or flavor, such as a plastic worm that contains no scent or flavor (yes, they do exist), it is not bait. You "assumed" rockjiggr's straight worms contained scent and/or flavor while they may have had neither. I chose not to comment on that because I know the rules and definitions as well as the fact there are non-scented, non-flavored plastic worms available for use and gave rockjiggr the benefit of doubt.

Discussion is moot at this point, WDFW has confirmed what they told me in the past is still true.

[Ball_Gawd]

You are absolutely correct on my incorrect assumption! I think I was tunnel-visioned on "worm",,,, ooppssss. Thank you for the clarification.

[Shad_Eating_Grin]

what about all the koke fishermen who catch and release lots of fish, trying to keep the biggest ones? usually, the koke fishermen are tipping their rigs with bait or applying scent...

[jd39]

what about all the koke fishermen who catch and release lots of fish, trying to keep the biggest ones? usually, the koke fishermen are tipping their rigs with bait or applying scent...

My understanding is that they're breaking the regulation. No min size for kokanee/trout in most fisheries, if you let shakers go that you caught on bait they count toward your limit. Pretty positive of that one but you're free to write the wdfw, they do respond!

[ncwflounderer]

how about if you are fishing for Kokanee, and catch trout incidentally and release all trout. Do you have to quit fishing for Kokanee if you catch and release 5 trout? Lake Chelan you can catch 5 trout, but 10 kokanee.

[ResQ]

I really do not understand how more questions are coming of this as it has been very well outlined. I also do not understand how people feel "bait" kills fish. Its the barbs that kill fish. Hooks that get so crammed and lodged into the fishs face, mouth, throat and gills. When they get ripped out, it leaves the fish a bloody mess most of the time. As stated, Kokes are under the trout category. While fishing for them with bait, if you choose to release 5 then your done. If you keep 2 and release 3, you are done. If you keep 4 and release 1 you are done. The size is for trout.

[The Quadfather]

I really do not understand how more questions are coming of this as it has been very well outlined. Kokes are under the trout category. While fishing for them with bait, if you choose to release 5 then your done. If you keep 2 and release 3, you are done. If you keep 4 and release 1 you are done. The size is for trout.

I concur...
Put another way.... 5+0=5, 2+3=5, 4+1=5 (5+1= a ticket )

[Mike Carey]

how about if you are fishing for Kokanee, and catch trout incidentally and release all trout. Do you have to quit fishing for Kokanee if you catch and release 5 trout? Lake Chelan you can catch 5 trout, but 10 kokanee.

It's going to depend on the specific lake rules and whether kokanee count toward the trout limit. Bottom line is you can't assume for any lake they follow state-wide rules. Best to check and be sure. That's good advice for any place you go fishing, best to look it up in the regs and see if the body of water has special rules. And they change based on emergency rules. Check out Cle Elum for this year:

CLE ELUM LAKE (RESERVOIR)
(Kittitas Co.)
KOKANEE Year-round No min. size. Daily limit 16.
All Other TROUT Year-round Min. size 12". Daily limit 2. KOKANEE not included in TROUT daily
limit.
Other Game Fish Year-round Statewide min. size/daily limit.

I would expect that sometime in early July the above will likely change and say release kokanee over 14" as they protect the sockeye that return.

[ncwflounderer]

the reason I ask a NEW question is because the "special rules" for Lake Chelan state "LAKE TROUT and KOKANEE not included in TROUT daily limit. So your out fishing in Lake Chelan, and your fishing for Kokanee and during this trip you hook and release 5 TROUT. Your daily bag limit is 10 KOKANEE. your telling me that if you continue to fish for KOKANEE, that you would be in violation of the law? what if I had retained the first 5 TROUT? and then went on and filled my bag limit of KOKANEE? and then after that went ahead and dropped some LAKE TROUT gear to round out a full day? or if after taking the first 5 TROUT, then 2 KOKANEE, then what if a I hook a trout?

[ResQ]

That is why you have to read the regs. What if your trolling for trout and hook a bass? What if you are salmon fishing and hook a flounder? It tells you in the regs. Mike outlined it very well. It varies from lake to lake, river to river and state to state. You should carry a regs pamphlet in your boat, truck and fishing bag. They are free. It tells you what is all included in the limit. Yes, if Kokes are included in a trout limit and you are targeting kokes and hook 4 trout and get one Koke in American Lake you are done. Lake Cle Elum as Mike used as an example has them divided in two separate limits so you can fish for both limits, or just one. But if you are using bait, every legal fish you catch must count toward that respective limit. Kept or released.

[hewesfisher]

What we all need to do is read the Special Rules Section for the body of water we plan to fish FIRST. If the body of water you plan to fish is NOT in the Special Rules Section of the regs pamphlet, statewide retention rules on pg 17 of the pamphlet apply.

Kokanee anglers who catch and release beyond a limit when fishing with bait (as defined in the regs) and detailed in either the Special Rules Section or the Statewide General rules are doing so illegally. In the state of Washington, kokanee are TROUT, see the species list on pg 17 in the pamphlet. Anglers take note - kokanee are listed.

It's not this hard guys, really. If kokanee are not excluded from the TROUT limit on the particular body of water you fish, and you're fishing with bait, then they count toward a TROUT daily limit. If kokanee are excluded, like on Chelan and Roosevelt they do not. It really is that simple.

[ncwflounderer]

I am still unclear in the case of Lake Chelan where Kokanee is not counted toward your trout limit. if you catch 5 trout using bait while targeting Kokanee, do you have to stop fishing regardless?

[ResQ]

For trout yes. Kokanee no.

[ncwflounderer]

so, yes, you can continue to fish for Kokanee, but if you hook another trout, your in violation?

[jd39]

so, yes, you can continue to fish for Kokanee, but if you hook another trout, your in violation?

If you kept it you would be. You wouldn't be for simply hooking another trout while targeting kokanee though, we can't control what hits our presentations for the most part. There are some things we can do to try but nothing is 100% effective.
Take Sammamish for example, kokanee are closed on Sammamish, I've hooked 4-5 while fishing for cutts, I'm not in violation for hooking those kokanee even though they are off limits like trout would be in your example. The way I bait and present a lure for cutts on Sammamish I'd never do for kokanee but nevertheless those darn kokanee hit it anyway.

[Mike Carey]

so, yes, you can continue to fish for Kokanee, but if you hook another trout, your in violation?

I would say no, if you're legitimately targeting kokanee. As a practical matter, the species travel in seperate water columns. Our three trips last year we caught maybe 2-3 rainbows vrs. 60-70 kokanee. For an example, last summer area 9 allowed 2 coho and 4 pink. If you caught your coho limit you could keep fishing for pinks, and coho would have to be released. You weren't required to stop fishing.

[Mike Carey]

As jd39 stated, a lot goes toward intent which can be determined based on techniques. Another example: lake Washington is closed for sockeye. If you drop sockeye gear down and tell wdfw enforcement you are fishing for trout they are likely to ticket you.
That's an enforcement judgment call.

[ncwflounderer]

I do understand that it is a bit of a judgment call. the reason I raised this question was that a few weeks ago I went to lake Chelan to target KoKanee, and ended up with 1 nice one at 18", then I went on to catch and release several trout while still targeting Kokanee at various depths. And last weekend I was out there again and the same thing happened, although I did not get any Kokanee. another member posted a report and he caught 1 Kokanee and 2 nice Trout. It just seemed to me that this is worth clarification. I understand if I am plunking with Powerbait, and end up catching over my limit of Trout, and if WDFW came to me and asked what was going on, an I told them that I was trying to catch Kokanee, and these pesky trout keep biting, that I would probably receive a citation. I try not to be in violation of the rules, and always check the special rules, and emergency rules for areas I am fishing. It is complicated, and I think this Kokanee/trout thing is Lake Chelan is a bit of a gray area, and worth being aware of.