Smalma
5/15/2013 9:08:00 AMNot sure how the what the catch limit is would effect the early season fishing on Stevens. Given the size of the fish this year it is pretty clear that the numbers of fish in the population is down. Year to year variation in kokanee abundances the normal.
Have you ever noticed that virtually all the fish you catch are sexually maturing adults. This means with the exception of some late season juveniles the fish not caught last year would have spawned and died last fall and would not be available this year. Thus the fish supporting a given year's fishery are those that were able to survive from small fry to the last year of their life.. If excessive harvest via the 10 fish limit is occurring to the degree to effect the fishing this early in the season that harvest would have to occur before this time of year
How has been the fishing been this winter and early spring?
Are lots of fish being before this time of year?
I spend a fair amount of time fishing Stevens and talk with lots of anglers. Given the catch rates that are the "Norm" between the first of the year and early May the daily limit would have to reduced to less than 2 fish/day to significantly reduce the harvest before this time of the year (how many are actually catching even 5 fish during the early season..
Is that what folks are suggesting or what they want to see?
Curt
Have you ever noticed that virtually all the fish you catch are sexually maturing adults. This means with the exception of some late season juveniles the fish not caught last year would have spawned and died last fall and would not be available this year. Thus the fish supporting a given year's fishery are those that were able to survive from small fry to the last year of their life.. If excessive harvest via the 10 fish limit is occurring to the degree to effect the fishing this early in the season that harvest would have to occur before this time of year
How has been the fishing been this winter and early spring?
Are lots of fish being before this time of year?
I spend a fair amount of time fishing Stevens and talk with lots of anglers. Given the catch rates that are the "Norm" between the first of the year and early May the daily limit would have to reduced to less than 2 fish/day to significantly reduce the harvest before this time of the year (how many are actually catching even 5 fish during the early season..
Is that what folks are suggesting or what they want to see?
Curt
Shurstrike82
5/15/2013 9:20:00 AMEven though I have already gone out this year and tried to still fish, (way to early). Mostly to get the family out of the house. I have to agree its still to early for full on fishing for Kokes yet on Lake Stevens. With the weather being little nicer than the norm I would say that about the second week in June is when things should start picking up. Give it a couple more weeks and I bet you will see a significant change in the fishing on Lake Stevens.
But I am glad to see people out there giving it a go. And better yet I love seeing the post with some great eatting Kokes. Congrants and hope you enjoyed.
But I am glad to see people out there giving it a go. And better yet I love seeing the post with some great eatting Kokes. Congrants and hope you enjoyed.
fear_no_fish
5/15/2013 11:22:00 AM"Me and John Thomas were talking and i think he has a very scary but good point, a few to many years of high limits and heavy fishing pressure have taken their toll on this once very productive lake. I hope our rule makers and bioligist's take note of the hard catching at the lake this year. Cause this time last year i was pulling limits every trip, now its hard to scratch out a few fish."
That, the derbies, and multiple guides, plus the crappy water condition in the creeks and lakes, its kinda surprising there is still a population of fish. Im sure the biggest problem is pressure though. I wont point fingers at anyone but there are a couple people that started catching and taking at least 2 or 3 limits of fish a day (twice a day) all summer long, for a couple summers.
Just like every other body of water, the guides sniffed up a little money, took way too many fish and brought too much attention to the lake.
That, the derbies, and multiple guides, plus the crappy water condition in the creeks and lakes, its kinda surprising there is still a population of fish. Im sure the biggest problem is pressure though. I wont point fingers at anyone but there are a couple people that started catching and taking at least 2 or 3 limits of fish a day (twice a day) all summer long, for a couple summers.
Just like every other body of water, the guides sniffed up a little money, took way too many fish and brought too much attention to the lake.
jd39
5/15/2013 12:01:00 PMThey stock it every year with kokanee fry but put in less than half of what they stock in American and they're similar sized lakes at around 1k acres (~180k fry for Stevens vs 450k fry for American). Both lakes seem to be struggling though to put out decent/consistent catches. One thought/guess is that SMB populations have grown and are fattening up on the fry and the survival rates have plummeted, not sure if there's any truth to that but isn't there a healthy bass fishery in Stevens as well?
If proof is provided that bass are a significant contributing factor (there's typically more than one culprit) kokanee fishers may need to start engaging in population control. If some SMB end up on my line I may have to take a peak at their stomach contents, my grandfather and I kept and ate bass all the time growing up. They may appear on the menu again....
Anyhow, those look like nice kokanee Steelheadin360! Good work!
f_n_f - report them to authorities if you can! That's not right or justifiable anyway ones looks at it.
If proof is provided that bass are a significant contributing factor (there's typically more than one culprit) kokanee fishers may need to start engaging in population control. If some SMB end up on my line I may have to take a peak at their stomach contents, my grandfather and I kept and ate bass all the time growing up. They may appear on the menu again....
Anyhow, those look like nice kokanee Steelheadin360! Good work!
f_n_f - report them to authorities if you can! That's not right or justifiable anyway ones looks at it.
Artic Fox
5/15/2013 2:18:00 PMI noticed that there was a heavy infestation of a parasite in the gills of many Kokanee we caught last year. We even netted one fish thrashing around on the surface that was suffocating because of the gills being covered with them. They are specific to Kokanee and sockeye. I think that may have taken a toll on the population as well. I haven't noticed any this year.
Smalma
5/15/2013 2:41:00 PMjd -
The smallmouth have been in Stevens for approximately 3 decades. So it is hard to believe that they suddenly have become a problem. Generally speaking the smallmouth and the kokanee use to very different parts of the lake with the kokanee suspended over the deep water so in theory at least there should be little interaction between the two. Now the interactions between the smallmouth and say the cutthroat is a different story.
Artic Fox -
I too noticed the much heavier infestation of those parasitic copepods in the kokanee the last two years (maybe even worst this year). In the 5 or 6 years for last year rarely saw any of those critters on the kokanee - the coho and sometimes rainbows would have heavy infestations. Generally speaking those parasites cause only minor problems for fish like kokanee but a clear indication that something different is going on in the lake's ecology. Could be something as subtle as changes in the timing of the phytoplankton and zooplankton" blooms".
Curt
The smallmouth have been in Stevens for approximately 3 decades. So it is hard to believe that they suddenly have become a problem. Generally speaking the smallmouth and the kokanee use to very different parts of the lake with the kokanee suspended over the deep water so in theory at least there should be little interaction between the two. Now the interactions between the smallmouth and say the cutthroat is a different story.
Artic Fox -
I too noticed the much heavier infestation of those parasitic copepods in the kokanee the last two years (maybe even worst this year). In the 5 or 6 years for last year rarely saw any of those critters on the kokanee - the coho and sometimes rainbows would have heavy infestations. Generally speaking those parasites cause only minor problems for fish like kokanee but a clear indication that something different is going on in the lake's ecology. Could be something as subtle as changes in the timing of the phytoplankton and zooplankton" blooms".
Curt
jd39
5/15/2013 3:25:00 PMThanks Smalma, kinda thought the same thing when someone offered that explanation (although I didn't know about the length of time SMB have been American or Stevens). Just thought why would they all of a sudden be a problem? The person's "proof" was that last year they caught suspended SMB several times while trolling for kokanee, something they had never seen or done before. His hypothesis was that they were suspending to pick off smaller kokanee. Wasn't sure about that "proof" so need some of my own. I didn't catch a single SMB last year (I don't fish for them) so it could be awhile before I have any either way....
Idstud
5/15/2013 9:37:00 PMNice catch and very interesting talk going on. Mysis shrimp could be contributing as well since they compete for zooplankton. Ive seen video on youtube with guys chasing bass in schools of kokanee suspended in deep water. I know koks in lk stevens also spawn in the streams and shore lines where the would pass smb in a fry stage. I can see miss counting by one by mistake but double limits is poaching and should be reported get the hull number off the boat. I didnt even know they stocked stevens. Interesting and thanks for the report how to see you on the water.
scudman
5/15/2013 9:46:00 PMSteelhead360, most guys just haven't dialed it in yet. Fishing is very good already this year. Size of fish are impressive. So keep at it. They don't need to change limit size because most guys aren't catching fish anyway. Remember 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish. I think the lake should be like Baker Lake, NO GUIDES!
Smalma
5/16/2013 6:28:00 AMKokanee management can get pretty complex and while not wanting to get into too much detail I thought I would throw out some additional L. Stevens info.
Thankfully there are no mykiss shrimp in Stevens.
The spawning areas for kokanee in Stevens is very limited. There are no know beach areas in the lake (need upwelling springs and gravel) for the fish to use. There is limited areas in Mitchell/kokanee creek where most of the fish spawn. A few spawn in Lundeen Creek and while some us the outlet the fry that hatch there are unable to swim back upstream so those don't contribute to the lake population. Those spawning in the two inlet streams do contribute to the lake population though those numbers vary quite a bit (depending on stream flows while the eggs are in the gravel/flooding). It may be that the variability in contribution is accounting for the differences we see in adult abundances.
In terms of the fishing in any given year the catch of the hatchery fish (which come form :ake Whatcom) is not effected by the total angler harvest (bag limits no difference). While the harvest can limit the numbers of fish escaping to spawn in the tributaries. However before jumping to any conclusions we should consider the limited spawning habitat available and the significant differences in the fecundity (# of eggs/female) of kokanee. An 11 inch female will have something like 300 eggs while a 15/16 inch fish will have more than 1,500 eggs. In other words have a 1/3 as many large spawners as small spawners may actually result in more eggs being put in the gravel.
In other words it is hard to make the case that the 10 fish bag limit is limiting future fishing of either hatchery or wild kokanee. There are so social aspects of Lake Stevens kokanee management that could argue for a lower limit - it would make it easier for more anglers to catch the "limit". Lower the limit would potentially reduce the catch of the more successful anglers and result in a few more fish being available to the less skilled/experienced anglers. But I stress such arguments are not conservation/biologically based but social.
Curt
Thankfully there are no mykiss shrimp in Stevens.
The spawning areas for kokanee in Stevens is very limited. There are no know beach areas in the lake (need upwelling springs and gravel) for the fish to use. There is limited areas in Mitchell/kokanee creek where most of the fish spawn. A few spawn in Lundeen Creek and while some us the outlet the fry that hatch there are unable to swim back upstream so those don't contribute to the lake population. Those spawning in the two inlet streams do contribute to the lake population though those numbers vary quite a bit (depending on stream flows while the eggs are in the gravel/flooding). It may be that the variability in contribution is accounting for the differences we see in adult abundances.
In terms of the fishing in any given year the catch of the hatchery fish (which come form :ake Whatcom) is not effected by the total angler harvest (bag limits no difference). While the harvest can limit the numbers of fish escaping to spawn in the tributaries. However before jumping to any conclusions we should consider the limited spawning habitat available and the significant differences in the fecundity (# of eggs/female) of kokanee. An 11 inch female will have something like 300 eggs while a 15/16 inch fish will have more than 1,500 eggs. In other words have a 1/3 as many large spawners as small spawners may actually result in more eggs being put in the gravel.
In other words it is hard to make the case that the 10 fish bag limit is limiting future fishing of either hatchery or wild kokanee. There are so social aspects of Lake Stevens kokanee management that could argue for a lower limit - it would make it easier for more anglers to catch the "limit". Lower the limit would potentially reduce the catch of the more successful anglers and result in a few more fish being available to the less skilled/experienced anglers. But I stress such arguments are not conservation/biologically based but social.
Curt
