PatrickC
12/23/2018 11:16:04 PMExcellent report, those are some beautiful fish. This time of year a pealing drag can be hard to come by, glad to see there is action to be had! Tight lines
Sharphooks
12/25/2018 9:57:23 AMFastAction: Your photos of the fish being held as shown above are quite reminiscent of Lake Chelan especially with the background in play. Are you sure you posted the correct photos of salmon as taken from Lake Sammmamish? If so, my deep apology to you.
FastActionGS
12/25/2018 11:17:26 AMI promise you they are taken on lake sammamish. Just rare to see salmon out there that you can take. You will notice they are clipped and they are coho not Kokanee, and if we were on Chelan that chinook would be in the cooler. But since we want him to get to 20 lbs and return for area 10 kings in a few years, it is great to let him go
Sharphooks
12/26/2018 9:40:49 AMFastAction: My buddies who have fished Lake Sammamish in the last few days tell me the Coho they are now catching are no bigger than 10 to 11 inches. Where on the lake are you catching Coho that are running 12 to 16 inches as you reported in a prior posting?
Sharphooks
12/26/2018 9:28:52 PMFastAction: A long time friend of mine who happens to be a retired fisheries biologist took a good look at the photo as you have posted above showing a lone fisherman holding 6 fish on a stick. He contends those fish as shown are not Coho. They are Kokanee. What's your response?
FastActionGS
12/26/2018 10:03:22 PMSharphooks: my response would first be that there are only 5 fish in the photo posted above, 6 is above the limit for one person. The last thing we would do would be break a law.
Secondly, in response to the coho question, I would say that before I kept a single one I called my friend who is a current fisheries biologist And I was assured they are coho.
In addition, I would say that you can only keep hatchery coho, and all of these fish are missing an adipose fin. The Kokanee in the lake have their adipose in tact, or at least every one I have caught has, and I have caught quite a few.
Additionally all of the fish above had the obvious coho marking. Sharp teeth, teeth on the front of their tongue, a black mouth with white gumbs, spots on the upper lobe of the tail only, and a silver skin extending out onto the tail.
They are coho, not Kokanee. But I appreciate your concern as Kokanee are endangered in the lake. I have worked with trout unlimited to help manage number and aid in rehabilitation, so the more people know about Kokanee the better.
Secondly, in response to the coho question, I would say that before I kept a single one I called my friend who is a current fisheries biologist And I was assured they are coho.
In addition, I would say that you can only keep hatchery coho, and all of these fish are missing an adipose fin. The Kokanee in the lake have their adipose in tact, or at least every one I have caught has, and I have caught quite a few.
Additionally all of the fish above had the obvious coho marking. Sharp teeth, teeth on the front of their tongue, a black mouth with white gumbs, spots on the upper lobe of the tail only, and a silver skin extending out onto the tail.
They are coho, not Kokanee. But I appreciate your concern as Kokanee are endangered in the lake. I have worked with trout unlimited to help manage number and aid in rehabilitation, so the more people know about Kokanee the better.
herefishy
12/27/2018 5:17:59 PMGood to see your catching some nice coho. Those little coho were a pest until they got big enough to keep. My husband and I couldn't keep them off our lines this past Fall while we were fishing for cutthroat. Glad they are now getting over 12" so now they can be kept.
mizefish
12/31/2018 12:41:41 PMI've just spent an hour on the internet trying to get a definitive answer on identifying Cohos vs. Kokanee, and the info is ALL OVER THE PLACE. Even the WDFW's own website doesn't answer the question well (they show a cartoon drawing of a Kokanee). King County's website is even worse, showing a Kokanee as an actual spawning phase Sockey, describing both male and female Kokanees as being RED. WDFW even contradicts itself saying that Kokanee have virtually no teeth, and then saying their teeth are well developed on both the upper and lower jaws. The photos often don't verify the descriptions, the "rules" don't seem to be always true, and we all know that the same fish can look very different depending on it's age and the time of year. Here's the "rule" I'm going to use, and it revolves around a fish's spots:
NO BACK SPOTS
NO TAIL SPOTS
NO KEEP. (because it's a Kokanee)
According to the WDFW's own description: "Kokanee have blue backs and silver sides and unlike other salmon and trout, except chum salmon, sockeye and kokanee lack distinct dark spots on their backs and tail fins."
No spots = No keep
All the other stuff about teeth and tongues and black mouth vs gray gum line...that's too deep in the weeds for me, guys. I see the photos of what "experts" call a black mouth, and I see gray. And how can a Kokanee have a gum line if it's supposed to have NO TEETH? A side-by-side photo comparison of a live Sammamish Coho next to a live Sammamish Kokanee, posted by a lifetime expert like Paul Lewis, and notarized by 2 WDFW witnesses would be about all I'd accept as a "true" definition at this point. Why live fish only? Because we all know they can change color post-mortem, and LIVE is when we as anglers are making the crucial boat side decision to release them or keep them for dinner.
Anyone interested in making this photo comparison happen? Maybe it should be video, but closeup shots will be key.
NO BACK SPOTS
NO TAIL SPOTS
NO KEEP. (because it's a Kokanee)
According to the WDFW's own description: "Kokanee have blue backs and silver sides and unlike other salmon and trout, except chum salmon, sockeye and kokanee lack distinct dark spots on their backs and tail fins."
No spots = No keep
All the other stuff about teeth and tongues and black mouth vs gray gum line...that's too deep in the weeds for me, guys. I see the photos of what "experts" call a black mouth, and I see gray. And how can a Kokanee have a gum line if it's supposed to have NO TEETH? A side-by-side photo comparison of a live Sammamish Coho next to a live Sammamish Kokanee, posted by a lifetime expert like Paul Lewis, and notarized by 2 WDFW witnesses would be about all I'd accept as a "true" definition at this point. Why live fish only? Because we all know they can change color post-mortem, and LIVE is when we as anglers are making the crucial boat side decision to release them or keep them for dinner.
Anyone interested in making this photo comparison happen? Maybe it should be video, but closeup shots will be key.
mizefish
12/31/2018 2:06:30 PMClassic: here's a link to a YouTube video showing a "fisheries biologist" telling us the differences between a Coho and a Kokanee. Basically tells us that Coho have spots and Kokanee have virtually none. Proceeds to catch a Kokanee and the first thing he says is, "This one has actually quite a few spots on it." (shaking my head)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY7XxDwWZcU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY7XxDwWZcU
Sharphooks
1/1/2019 8:06:38 PMmizefish: Just currious, based upon your interpretation of a Coho vs Kokanee, what specie of fish is the fisherman holding on the stick, 5 fish apparently of the same type, as shown in the photo connected to this report? Its impossible to see a clipped fin on those fish because the adipose fin location is completely dark black or very dark blue.
mizefish
1/2/2019 5:00:05 PMSharphooks, I couldn't testify with 100% certainty based on this photo alone, but I'll admit that particular image gave me some consternation when I saw that the WDFW's own website used phrases like, "blue back, silver sides, and deeply forked tail." All those boxes get checked when looking at that photo. However, I trust FastAction's experience on this lake and his ethics as a sportsman. As a guide, he wouldn't get much repeat business if clients felt he could get them fined or have their gear confiscated for rules infractions. Also, in looking at the photo again today, it might be shadows or low exposure, but don't those fishes mouths look dark to you? Full disclosure, I've only caught 1 salmonid in Sammamish that I knew wasn't a Cutthroat (November). Assumed it was a Kokanee so I tossed it back. Next time I'll look for spots first! BTW, caught 10 yesterday(1/1/19) by fishing amongst the gulls. 5 smallest are on the smoker as I type this. 17inchers released to go make babies.
Sharphooks
1/3/2019 9:18:47 PMmizefish: I'm certainly not an expert when it comes to fish specie fish identification, and just like you, I'm absolutely certain with no doubt in my mind the guide in question would never take his clients out on Lake Sammamish and catch and keep illegal fish. Going back to my initial comments here, I asked him "are you sure you posted the correct photos of salmon as take from Lake Sammamish?" Several people who have commented to me on that photo, 5 fish on a stick, have suggested to me that photo is of Kokanee that were previously caught at Lake Chelan as previously seen within this website's archives. From their perspective and not mine, that raised the question of sugarcoating the Lake Sammamish Coho fishery. With them, its strictly a matter of photo representation and not a legal matter. Their foremost clue being the lake shoreline background with the snowy side hills that don't seem to match up at the time those fish were taken with the then surrounding area of Lake Sammamish.
FastActionGS
1/3/2019 9:28:59 PMsharp hooks, that mountain that is snowcapped is actually a beautiful view of Mount Rainier. there are a couple spots on the lake you can see the mountain, and it is an absolute gorgeous view. I can assure you with 100% confidence you wont find this photo on any lake Chelan post, or other lake post besides this one, as it was taken by me, On Lake Sammamish. if you email me at [email protected], or text me at (425)-753-5772, I am happy to send you the photo with its location tracker.
I appreciate your stewardship of the lake and concern about fabricating a fishery. the picture of the two fish (3rd fish) were on the stringer that day, and there you can see they are in fact coho, not kokanee from Chelan. I am not a current guide on chelan, although soon I may be joining the great fleet of guides already working the lake. tight lines!
I appreciate your stewardship of the lake and concern about fabricating a fishery. the picture of the two fish (3rd fish) were on the stringer that day, and there you can see they are in fact coho, not kokanee from Chelan. I am not a current guide on chelan, although soon I may be joining the great fleet of guides already working the lake. tight lines!
Sharphooks
1/4/2019 12:19:19 AMFastAction: Okay, FastAction, I hear you loud and clear the photo of the 5 fish being held on the stick by a lone fisherman within this report are in fact hatchery residulized and "legally" caught Coho from Lake Sammamish. I have no choice but to accept what you say as the honest to goodness truth. I tend to be a highly suspicious person when it comes to news reporting so forgive me for my extended examination of that specific photo. Here is wishing you lots of good and fun filled Coho fishing days ahead with your clients on Lake Sammamish.
Mike Carey
1/4/2019 6:38:15 AMHaving fished both lake Chelan and Lake Sammamish I find it laugh-able to even consider the 5 fish on the stick picture as being from lake Chelan. Sharphooks, repeating some other peoples "comments" that they think it isn't a Lake Sammamish picture is disingenuous at the least. Repeating false gossip is no different than making an accusation yourself. Please review the terms and conditions of this web site that you agreed to when you joined. If you ever met Paul in person you would realize what an idiotic accusation this is.
